Are we at a tipping point on guns?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    "Your access to guns is not as important as students' lives."

    "Not since Bill Clinton’s first presidential term, when the Brady Bill restricting handgun sales and an assault weapons ban were enacted, have gun control advocates experienced a time so promising for legislative action.

    "From Columbine, Colo., in 1999 to Newtown, Conn., in 2012 to Las Vegas last fall, mass shootings have done little to move the needle on gun control measures. Liberals proposed modest restrictions, and the NRA, with the backing of the Republican Party and some red-state Democrats, prevented them from being adopted. But this time seems different. The students are media-savvy, articulate and have effectively seized the moral high ground based on their first-hand experiences of the terror. They are highly sympathetic and dogged....

    "Just as a movement led by students organized business boycotts and captured national news attention for a cause; just as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and other protesters grounded their arguments in higher moral appeals and constitutional notions of freedom and equality, today’s gun control movement is being led by students, pressuring an older generation of mostly white lawmakers to acknowledge and respond to their claims and couching their appeals in notions of freedom and safety etched in the Declaration of Independence’s guarantee of 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.' Teenagers and children, they are saying, have a right to go to school free from the terror of gun violence."
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/tipping-point-guns-100000359.html

    I thought that Sandy Hook was a tipping point, but it turned out not to be . Maybe this time is different. It often takes years or decades for a movement to attain its goal. Look at the Civil Rights movement, for example. Republicans are still in the majority in Congress, but Democrats have an opportunity to gain ground later this year.
     
  2. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    "Teenagers and children, they are saying, have a right to go to school free from the terror of gun violence."

    There have been 89 school age children murdered by someone with a gun in the last 20 years, in 130,000 schools with 50 million children in attendance, on average, each day. If there's terror, it's been foisted upon them by SJWs and innumeracy. They are much more likely to die driving or riding with other teens.
     
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  3. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Sorry, your life is not more valuable than mine, and I have a right to defend myself and my family. You want students' lives protected? Lobby for proper safety and security measures, not a myopic and childish philosophy like gun control.

    Democrats never learn. They keep thinking they've finally got the upper hand (and sometimes they even have) and they forget that EVERY TIME they start openly advocating for gun control they get their asses handed to them during the next election.

    This time, they've lost their minds and are hysterically raving for gun control so extreme even moderates are recoiling in horror. Business have cut ties with the NRA... and their stocks have plunged. NRA membership is growing at the fastest rate in recent memory.

    At this rate, the mid term elections will be a disaster for the Democrats; at a time when they should be looking forward to serious gains.
     
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  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The individual in the article apparently believes that people of the united states do not use firearms for the purpose of protecting their lives from harm.

    If the Sandy Hook incident was not the so-called "turning point" in the united states, then likely no incident will be. The incident in the state of Florida came about because law enforcement chose not to act when confronted by a legitimate threat. Despite being reported by his own family for threatening them with a firearm, Nikolas Cruz was never arrested or charged with any crime.
     
  5. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Law enforcement and the school district were following federal guidelines. There was concern about too many students (especially minority students) being arrested.

    "In January 2014, his department issued new discipline guidelines strongly recommending that the nation's schools use law enforcement measures and out-of-school suspensions as a last resort. Announced jointly by Duncan and then-Attorney General Eric Holder, the new procedures came as more than friendly guidance from Uncle Sam – they also came with threats of federal investigations and defunding for districts that refused to fully comply....

    "A repeat offender, Cruz benefited from the lax discipline policy, if not the counseling. Although he was disciplined for a string of offenses -- including assault, threatening teachers and carrying bullets in his backpack -- he was never taken into custody or even expelled. Instead, school authorities referred him to mandatory counseling or transferred him to alternative schools."
    https://www.realclearinvestigations...cipline_policy_and_the_parkland_shooting.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  6. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I think America is perhaps at a tipping point with guns.
    I think even if it is not, that it is inevitably coming. And coming soon.

    I know I am. Last year I wouldn't advocate for America to adopt effective gun controls.
    Now I do.
    Fully. I've been tipped.

    Again and again I've heard all the arguments, the guns are the solution to gun violence routines, but it's getting worse not better.
    This solution = fail.

    It's been tried and it has demonstrably made things worse.
    And each day it gets worse.

    Time for the other people to try it their way. Has America tipped, possibly.
    Probably.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    What about the FBI failing to investigate the terroristic threats that were made under his own name? Was the FBI bound by local, state-level policies in this case?
     
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  8. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Doubtful. Especially since "guns" aren't the problem. The problem is mentally ill people having guns despite multiple reports to the police. The problem is a culture of gang-bangers shooting each other and driving the US homicide rate to well above industrial nation standards.
     
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  9. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Think. The gun banners want to disarm everyone, and the banners claim the cops are the ones who are trained and have the job of protecting people. Yet the cops fail repeatedly to protect people. In Parkland, the cops in fear for their own lives sat outside letting kids be murdered.

    And you make excuses for the cops.

    Your argument has totally failed.
     
  10. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    It only appears that America has changed its attitude about gun control because of the media saturation that occurs after an event. Its all hype and propaganda put on in an attempt to make people set aside their intellect and react emotionally.

    What doesn't get so much media attention is the gun rights push back. Gun show attendance after Parkland is way up, gun sales will probably be way up once the data for February comes out, and there is significant gun rights boycotting of the businesses that dropped the NRA. I wouldn't be surprised if NRA membership increases (which is typical during these times when the banners are active).

    And its not getting worse, that's just part of the hype.
     
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  11. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    Poor ignorant kids...

    Without guns you could not demonstrate to confiscate our guns.

    The patriot will use their guns to defend the rights of the liberals...so the liberals can demonstrate and have free speech.

    In many countries if you open your mouth you are dead.

    [​IMG]

    What separates America from the rest is we have a second amendment. Sadly, with Democratic liberals, their view is the only acceptable way. If they don't get their way then they resort to violence to force it on the conservative.

    Kids / libs / Dems...the 2A is not negotiable now or ever.


     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But only because white children were killed. Telling.
     
  13. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    His lack of a criminal record made it difficult for the FBI to confirm that he truly was a threat.

    “ 'He had a clean record, so alarm bells didn’t go off when they looked him up in the system,' veteran FBI agent Michael Biasello told RCI. 'He probably wouldn’t have been able to buy the murder weapon if the school had referred him to law enforcement.'....

    "A little more than a month before the Feb. 14 shooting, the FBI hotline received a tip about Cruz being a potential school gunman, but it failed to take action. If he had been previously arrested and booked for the on-campus misdemeanors, the FBI intake specialist handling the call would have seen his violent history in the federal National Crime Information Center database, which includes all state arrests, convictions, warrants and alerts."
    https://www.realclearinvestigations...cipline_policy_and_the_parkland_shooting.html
     
  14. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    I think gun control will fully succeed at some point in the future. Positive societal change takes time. It took almost a century after the Civil War for Jim Crow to be ended.
     
  15. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    "Gun control" is a meaningless term without details. Jim Crow laws were not Constitutionally protected rights. Not a very good comparison.
     
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  16. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

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    Where is the outrage for the daily danger so many inner city kids face, and have faced, just getting to and from school? What about their safety outside of school where our cities suffer gang shootings repeatedly in liberal strongholds? Yeah...the faux outrage.
     
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  17. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    There WAS opportunity. But the democrats criticized Trump the moment he showed some pliancy, and Trump is the President you have to go through to get it done. You can't fix stupid.

    I think democrats just want this to continue to fester rather than get something done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  18. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    From Columbine in 1999 to Parkland of this year, 39 K-12 students have been killed in a mass shooting at school by a shooter using an "assault weapon". None were Black.

    Since 1999, 8,553 Black children age 14 and under have been murdered by someone with a gun. Why haven't the Democrats been marching every single day for the Black kids?
     
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  19. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

    Keep on dreaming ! High school emotions don't change the United States constitution . Sorry !
     
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  20. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Seems to be their stance on everything , they have zero solutions . They just attack and divide .
     
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  21. allislost

    allislost Member

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    “Are we at a tipping point on guns.”
    What happened at Parkland that made Cruz think he had to go and shoot it up?
    What happened at Sandy Hook that made Lanza think he had to shoot it up?
    I am 60+ old and one thing I have noticed is when we are out like at McDonalds and the kids come in.
    Junior high and high school kids are the rudest most inconsiderate of all.
    How do they treat other classmates in school?
    Is bullying the problem. I know kids can be very mean in school.
    A lot parents believe their kids would never treat some one else badly.
    I heard the deputy sheriff of Broward County in Florida this morning say that this is not a gun problem....
    How much responsibility do the students have in reducing the violence in their schools?
    How many students are at the “tipping point” where they have endured too much and are ready to snap?
     
  22. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These folks from the inner cities will not be protected by firearms bans.

    upload_2018-3-3_16-8-31.png
     
  23. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Meaning that law enforcement at all levels failed to recognize yet another threat, just as they did with Omar Mateen, and as a result innocent individuals were murdered.

    If such is now the standard norm in the united states, where law enforcement is not only too incompetent to address confirmed threats, but also too afraid to do its job, they as an organization are devoid of a legitimacy in even existing.
     
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  24. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    So what's your solution? Someone who supports the lax gun laws which result in more black kids getting shot is not in a position to criticize Democrats.
     
  25. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, right. What it takes to get a handgun from Indiana to Illinois, and three times as many crime guns in Illinois originate in Illinois as compared to Indiana:

    Indiana laws broken:

    Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana without an FFL: felony
    Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to resell or otherwise transfer the handgun to another person who the transferer knows or has reason to believe is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a handgun: felony
    Illinois resident buying a handgun in Indiana with the intent to ransport the handgun out of the state to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm: felony
    Possibly: Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods - felony

    Illinois laws broken:

    It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm in any vehicle or concealed on or about the person, except on one’s land or in one’s abode or fixed place of business, without a license.
    Selling a handgun without an FFL -
    Buying a gun without an FOID card
    Buying ammo without an FOID caard
    Buying a handgun under the age of 21
    Selling a handgun without a 72 hour waiting period.

    Possibly: Buying, selling or possessing stolen goods

    Here's what allows people to have guns and shoot Black kids:

    "From January 2006 through August 2013, thousands of cases involving a weapons violation were thrown out in Cook County’s criminal courts, The Chicago Reporter found. More than 13,000 cases that included a gun violation have been dismissed during that period, shows the Reporter’s analysis of records maintained by the Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County. In fact, more felony cases involving a gun--from illegal possession to unlawful sale to a felon--have been thrown out than cases with any other type of charge."

    http://chicagoreporter.com/thousand...-being-dismissed-cook-county-criminal-courts/
     

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