Assange Moved To Prison Hospital, Can Barely Speak

Who has more influence in Baghdad now, the US or Iran? I honestly don't know as it's been years since I was on this forum or read anything on the matter. It's hard to keep up when you are wrecking your body in these low paying jobs. But I would guess Iran, and if so, they won.

 

Clearly Iran, but that's not because of the Wikileaks publications ... just in case that's what you're getting at.

This is due to the inability, arrogance and ignorance of the US itself since the attack on Iraq in 2003. Things like the disgusting Abu-Ghraib prison scandal must have seriously damaged the US image when it became known ... but that these crimes were committed by US soldiers is not the fault of the investigative media, which includes Wikileaks. And without something like Wikileaks it would not have become known and many would still live in "La La Land USA never do evil".

 

I never said Assange doesn't have the right to do what he does. It's just what he is doing makes him my enemy. Now my views on Manning and Snowden are different and I do not think they had the right to do what they did. They are traitors. That being said, I don't agree with automatic execution for them. There are 3 reasons for espionage like this: 1. Leaker was duped/blackmailed by foreign entities 2. Leaker did it out of greed. 3. Leaker did it to harm.

The considered punishment for the leaker should also ascend in that order. I don't have enough information to determine which applies to Snowden/Manning.

 

I understand the reporting duty they had but I feel they also had a duty to give context and imo the US media largely did not. For example most people know about those attack heli videos but most don't know what a show of force is and how we used SOF to disperse/discourage possible enemies as opposed to just bombing them. And how we did this much much more often than actually dropping bombs.

 

So the releases timed with Obama's G8/Germany visit or right before 2016 election were just coincidence and not indicators of motive?

 

But the problem is:
The American government ... Obama as well as Trump so far ... are denying Assange this right and want to bring him to a US court.
Assange is not an American citizen, he received secret official US stuff from American sources (and other sources) and then published them on Wikileaks. this is his crime according to the US ... which is ridiculous!
When the editor-in-chief of Fox News, CNN, Washington Post, the NY Times, the British BBC or whoever does the same with appropriately secret things from Russia and China ... then China and Russia have the right to extradite the American editor-in-chief to ask for bringing him to court in Moscow or Beijing? Hardly anyone here will answer yes

I see it a little differently with Snowden ... honestly, I can't say much about Manning at the moment.
Of course, with his action, Snowden violated his duty of confidentiality, which he signed like every employee of a secret service. But that's all you could blame him for.
And when you consider that he had no chance to hand the matter over to the US judiciary via the "normal route" and that the US judiciary would not have done anything in the matter ... what was left for him and his conscience?

 

You mean this video where an AH-64 shots in a crowd of civilans in Iraq? What was here any sort of SOF, when he did not even gave a warning shot?

 

Not all of us did right over there, but the vast majority did. And even many of those who acted badly didn't do so out of evil intent. I view their actions as similar to cops who go too far in protecting themselves. That pilot was probably thinking more along the lines of, "I'm going to do everything I can to protect my troops on the ground". When "everything" isn't always the right course of action

 

Sure ...
But unfortunately it's a bit more complicated here, because if you want to hide unpleasant things, including war crimes, which just happen of course ... and then hypocritically pretend that you never do anything evil in public, then a video like this is twice as hard and bites in the butt!
And to be honest with the video ... I myself had been in 2 wars as a UN blue helmet:
Even if there were indeed a few AK-47s in the crowd, where was any threat to the AH-64 out of them?
There wasn't even anything else of American soldiers on the ground or in the air that these AK-47s could be seen as a threat to them why they shot like mad into the crowd!
And if you add the radio traffic from "Crazy Horse" to it, then that was a definite war crime by even American Definition of a war crime in the end.

 

I'll have to research but I do remember there being more context to this event than MSM reported.

 

It's very complicated but I will attempt a brief explanation. It is clear that the US, because of a free and well organized media, will lose every war hereafter when pitted against any enemy that doesn't have a free and organized media.

 

I don’t really care what happens to Assange. Just so long as he stays in some prison somewhere.

 

Color me indifferent. The guy is a shitweasel.

 

And these are the only legitimate acceptable reasons according to what authority....you? The voices in your head maybe?

 

I guess he spread his feces on the walls of the Ecuadorian embassy and likely raped two Swedish women. So he is a high functioning simian. Were we in sub Saharan Africa in a place untouched by humans, he would definitely be an alpha and successful.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-47956607

 

Well ... according to this definition you would have lost both world wars or had for example Nazi Germany a free media? ... but as is well known you have not lost them.

The problem is more to be seen elsewhere. It is above all these 3 major things that do not make you win:

#1
To start a war, or to participate in a still existing war / conflict and then to justify this with lies, is always bad ... especially if these are disclosed. That happened to you in Vietnam with the Tonking incident, which was really a completely different scenario and it was the case in Iraq in 2003 with the WMDs that Saddam has fairy tale.

#2
Then we have a bunch of incompetence, arrogance and ignorance that is very often present on all sorts of issues when you go to war.
In Vietnam it was the inability to fight a guerrillia successfully and purposefully + the inability to wage a successful air war against North Vietnam if you tie a hand behind the back of your own air force ... plus the arrogance of what these little yellow people can already do .
In Iraq it was the inability to have any plan at all for the time after the military victory over Saddam + the ignorance about Iraq and the people of Iraq and the conditions in Iraq that existed out of an ignorance to deal with it at all to align his measures accordingly! Rumsfeld later admitted in an interview that massive mistakes were made ... he himself did not even know the difference between Sunites and Schiietes and what the problem was until this problem bites in the US butt then.

#3
In general, the US population is only prepared to a certain extent to endure losses of US soldiers in a war if it is not a general great war almost or actually in the status of a world war ... or if the USA was attacked as in 9 / 11 or Pearl Harbor back then.
This also applies when such a minor war develops into a "never ending story" where no end is in sight.

Unfortunately, the USA then has the habit of simply proclaiming a flimsy "Mission accomplished" and then getting out of Dodge City ... although nothing is accomplished there and in the end it was the USA that was largely responsible for the mess itself . This is exactly what is threatening again in Afghanistan ...

 

It is informative that Hilary Clinton wants Assange on a stick.

Hilary can’t abide even the subtle whiff of criticism especially when it can be proven.He leaked bad stuff about her, so I do have a tiny bit of respect for Assange.

Thought I should be as fair to him as I can.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/12/hillary-clinton-julian-assange-arrest-wikileaks

 

The start of the Iraq War was when Saddam invaded Kuwait and raped and pillaged it. I'm often surprised at left leaning Americans who abhor what Russia did in Ukraine and are willing to arm Ukraine and otherwise assist them, but disagree with our responding to Saddam's Kuwait invasion when the atrocities there seem much worse.

 

What other reasons are there? The point was that although I feel they are guilty of treason, I'm not sure of what the punishment should be. The intent matters in this crime and I need more info to determine their intent.

 

Patriotism means supporting your country all of the time, but its government only when it deserves it.

The government in Washington DC is and has been a criminal organization for many years. Exposing its crimes is a civic obligation.

 

Saddam and his regime were unquestionably bastards ... only on the other hand, the US has not shied away from keeping other bastards of this kind in power as friends and allies. In the Cold War it didn't matter at all, the main thing was anti-communist that counts only. It is, for example, ridiculous and totally hypocritical when people in the USA get upset about the fact that the Sharia with its barbaric punishments is being used in Iran ... but then fall into total silence with Saudi Arabia, which uses the Sharia exactly the same way as Iran ... because Saudi Arabia is a friend!

And good that you come with Desert Storm. Can you remember the sobbing Kuwaiti girl at a hearing when she told under tears of the most brutal atrocities that were being committed in Kuwait by Saddam's troops? All fake news, the girl wasn't in Kuwait at all but in the USA the whole time, as it turned out later. Doesn't make you really more believable, isn't it?
Or poison gas: when Saddam used poison gas on a massive scale against the Kurds, there was not much reaction from the USA. It wasn't until 1990 that it suddenly became a big issue ... strange, eh? ... but that Saddam also used poison gas on a massive scale against Iran = war crimes were kept secret, because Iran was also a rogue state = Iranian soldiers gassed by Saddam are irrelevant and that until today! Such hypocrisy also damages your reputation and your credibility.

But more important ... 1991 was justified and also approved by the UN Security Council so far, only I'm talking about 2003 and the whole thing is different as in 1991 if you justify an illegal war of aggression also with lies!

Last but not least, Russia and Ukraine ...
The USA claim for themselves that nobody in their front yard of their sphere of influence does anything without their permission ... that is, specifically the Caribbean and Central America ... and all other "powers" should respect that!
Just ... why doesn't the US respect Russia's front yard? It is not as if Putin gave a clear warning in 2010 what would happen if what happened on the Maidan and as a result of it! Back then they just didn't take him seriously and laughed ... but I think everyone's laughing is gone! In addition, Ukraine is a kind of second Yugoslavia and something like that doesn't work or only works under duress and dictatorship! In eastern Ukraine, at least 3/4 of the population are Russians and they have no desire for the west as Kiev wants! And in the Crimea there are almost 90% Russians in the population and that the Crimea remained with the Ukraine after the end of the USSR was an accident in history, of which the USA and Yeltsin were not innocent at the time.
And as for this new cold war with Russia ... it was not started by Russia, but by the US with the unfounded deployment of the anti-missile umbrella in Poland and Romania ... which Bush Jr. also justified with the brazen lie, It is not against Russia but against the evil Iranian and North Krian missiles. Only ... neither of them had any missles with such a range and today only North Korea definitely has a few dozen with such a range ... Iran not yet!

 

A very few people must risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones just to tell the truth...
while others are celebrated and get paid generously for continually lying.
Most just stand by idle and watch.
Maybe I’ll try your method....

They lie, they cheat, they steal

They’ve forgotten what is real

They’ll pretend to be blind and deaf

Until there is nothing left….

 

I'm tired of this, "US works with dictators" meme. Of course we do! The world is comprised of 180+ countries with some level of authoritarian rule in many of them. This authoritianism can change for the better or worse over time. So really the only way to ensure we never work with someone who is or will be a dictator is to remove embassies from half the countries in the world and conduct zero foreign policy with them whatsoever. That way we can never be accused of working with a dictator. Crappy foreign policy strat imo, but hey it looks noble.

 

The Gulf War and 2003 Iraq War cannot be considered separately. The effects of the first war were still in place as we had to establish no fly zones to monitor Saddam. This was the US biggest mistake imo. Our troop placement in Saudi to enforce this directly led to 9/11. We far underestimated the level of anger this would cause for Muslims who considered it sacrilegious for such a "crusader" army to be positioned in "the land of the 2 Holy mosques".

 

What 911 and Covid have in common is that they were both planned. Both were inside jobs, planned years in advance.