Atheists Who Celebrate All The Good That God Causes.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by JAG*, May 25, 2020.

  1. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Swensson,
    I re-wrote my OP for this thread.
    I am posting it just for you.
    No response necessary.
    I re-wrote it just for the fun of re-doing it.
    ___________

    JAG Writes:
    Atheists do not believe that God exists but some atheists will postulate that
    God does exist for the sake of argument.

    Some of these Atheists interpret the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence
    (He is all powerful) as meaning that God not only permits, but also causes,
    all human suffering. These Atheists say that Christianity demands that we say
    that God causes . . .ALL. . . that comes to pass in human history and that God
    is therefore morally responsible for all that comes to pass in human history.

    Let us get this nailed down solid.
    Atheists do not believe that God exists.
    But they postulate that God exists for the sake of argument.
    Many atheists say the God-That-Does-Not-Exist drowned children in the Genesis Flood.
    Many atheists say the God-That-Does-Not-Exist committed genocide in the Old Testament.
    How can they say this if they do not believe that God exists?
    Again , , , They postulate that God does exist for the sake of argument, so they can
    accuse God of being evil and accuse Him of being ultimately responsible for all that
    comes to pass in human history because He is Omnipotent {all powerful} and
    could have created a world free from evil, pain, suffering, and death, but He
    chose not to do that, but rather chose to create the present world we have now,
    so they say God is therefore ultimately responsible for everything that occurs.

    Some of these Atheists say that the God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for , , ,
    ■ bone cancer in children
    ■ the COVID-19 virus now raging upon the human race
    ■ human diseases like cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's Disease, etc
    ■ earthquakes, mudslides, killer storms, Tsunamis, Hurricanes, etc
    ■ and all the other evils and suffering in the world

    So?

    So God either causes all things or He does not cause all things.

    If God causes all things then , , ,

    Worldwide every year there are thousands of good things that God
    causes but no threads are ever started by Atheists celebrating those
    thousands of good things God causes.

    If God gets the blame for all the bad things He is said to cause, then He
    also must get the credit for all the good things He causes -- if you want
    to be consistent --- and you do want to be consistent, I feel certain you
    do.

    So if God is Omnipotent and CONTROLS and CAUSES . . .ALL . . things,
    therefore all the tens of thousands of acts of kindness that occur worldwide
    every year are also caused by God --- and everything else that is a good thing.

    I ask these God-Causes-All-Things Atheists to join me in listing the good
    things God causes, along with the bad things they say He causes.

    So I have a question for atheists that DO accuse God of being evil because they
    say He caused all things and is ultimately responsible for the world of suffering
    we now have.
    Here is the question:
    God either , , ,
    {1} causes all things , , ,
    or He
    {2} does not cause all things.
    Which is it?

    If you say {2} then I call upon you to STOP accusing the God of the Bible
    of being evil because you picked {2} God "does not cause all things."

    If you say {1} then I call upon you to START giving God credit for all the
    good things God causes as well as giving God the credit for all the evil
    things you say God causes ---because you picked {1} God "causes all things" , , ,

    , , , and now I ask you to celebrate all the good things that God causes,
    as well as all the evil things you say that God causes , , , and here are
    some of those good things that God caused , , , ,

    ■ caused Polio to be cured.

    ■ caused all the love in the world

    ■ caused all the kindness in the world

    ■ caused all the empathy in the world

    ■ caused all the sympathy in the world

    ■ caused all the hospitals in the world to be built

    ■ caused all the charities in the world to come to exist

    ■ caused all the homes of people to be built

    ■ caused the Center For Disease Control to come to exist

    ■ caused the World Health Organization to come to exist

    ■ caused all the Super Walmart Stores and Sam's Clubs to come to exist

    ■ and caused every single thing that is a good thing, to come to exist

    ■ caused your automobiles to be made and to become yours

    ■ caused all the money you have, or will ever have, to become yours

    ■ caused your homes to be heated and cooled

    ■ caused all your clothes to be made and to become yours

    ■ caused your pets to come to exist and to become your pets

    ■ caused all your medicines to be made and to come to be inside your medicine cabinet

    ■ caused General Motors to come to exist

    ■ caused your cell phone to be made and to become yours

    ■ caused all the books in the world that you enjoy to be written

    ■ caused all the movies you enjoy to be made

    ■ caused all the music you enjoy to be made

    ■ caused all the warm sandy beaches you enjoy to come to exist

    ■ caused all the schools and universities to come to exist

    ■ caused the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra to come to exist

    ■ caused all the nursing homes to come to exist

    ■ caused all the retirement centers to come to exist

    ■ caused it to be possible for you to retire and enjoy your retirement

    JAG
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  2. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Well, it doesn't resolve any of the issues I've brought up.

    Atheists postulate the existence of God for the sake of the argument of evil. If you're not doing the argument of evil, and you're just listing stuff, then it is no longer for the argument of evil, and in that context, atheists no longer postulate the existence of God.
     
  3. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    In my world it DOES resolve all the issues you brought up.
    The only way that your issues can be "resolved" is if I agree
    with your opinions and conclusions , , but , , ,
    , , ,remember we don't agree on the color of an orange.
    I have told you several times that I do not have any interest
    in what atheists think about my OP --- that if they state my
    6 - 12, then I will request that they embrace my 11 and state
    my 14. There is nothing that you can say, think, or do, that
    will ever change that.
    Incorrect.
    You and the atheists can talk about the argument of evil if you
    want to. I will stick with my OP and if they state my 6 -12, then
    I will request that they embrace my 11 and state my 14.
    It does not matter. If they state my 6-12, then I will request
    that they embrace my 11 and then state my 14.
    Some of them might postulate the existence of God apart from
    the problem of evil.
    You do not know that there are not some atheists out there
    that postulate the existence of God doing good things

    totally apart from Him doing evil things. I can assume that
    there ARE some atheists that do that, and then I can request
    that they continue to do that, and then state my 14 with
    special enthusiasm and gusto.

    You don't speak for the world's atheists.
    You do not know what is in the mind's of ALL the atheists even here at
    PF -- much less on the Internet At Large and my OP was NOT written
    exclusively for the atheists here at PF -- but was written for a certain
    kind of atheists as mentioned in my OP --- but can also include the
    kind of atheists that I described in the bolded red up-post , ,

    , , , and down there too.


    Then there can be the un-aware atheists , , ,
    How about the following: I can request, if I want to, atheists who do NOT
    mention my 6 -12 to still observe my 14 and give God the credit for
    the good things He does --- even if those atheists are not even aware
    of the Problem Of Evil and have NEVER even heard a word about it.

    Best

    JAG
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some Atheists may find this webpage somewhat encouraging. Basically...... this seems to indicate that God has given us humans astonishing power to shift the future by making better decisions.

    https://www.near-death.com/science/research/future.html#a03


    I think that this idea fits with the idea of Multiverse Theory that one of our posters wrote about a few years ago.


    The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...iversal-models.400055/page-13#post-1065341007





     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  5. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your comments Dennis, much appreciated.
    I have a better version of the OP at the top of this page, my post 951.
    I re-wrote it just for the fun of re-writing it.
    Thanks again for your contributions.

    Best.

    JAG
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was an Atheist myself from the time that I was about eight years old until I was thirteen. I began studying the Bible at thirteen after hearing TV evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong present a powerful case that evolution was astonishingly improbable without a Creator to get life started..... and keep the development of life basically on track.......

    After studying these topics for forty eight of my sixty one years I am convinced that our Creator is not going to lose our parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren, friends, neightbours and family.... .but is actually working on saving everybody..... but..... if our Creator tell us that we will all be saved..... our behaviour tends to get worse!



    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason.html#a04h

    I suspect that this is what Paul meant by some truths being unlawful to explain clearly......


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2co/12/1/s_1090001


    I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

    And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


    I think that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus hinted that in our time period astonishing truths like this would finally be understood clearly.



    John 16:25
    These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  7. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Glad you saw the light, Dennis.
    Thanks for your comments.

    Best.

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
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  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I don't know the minds of every atheist out there, but I know that if there are people who work on the assumption that God actually created things, good and evil, then they're not really atheists.
     
  9. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Newly Registered

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    If a hypothetical being is all powerful and creates ab existence for others with any bad in it, then the creator being is not perfectly benevolent.

    This is the very basics of the problem of evil. It is a logic failure. A creator cant be all powerful and all benevolent and yet have any bad in its creation. If there is any bad then the creator either isnt all benevolent, or isnt all powerful.

    Allowing for free will in the creation may offset that a little, but only in regard to what the being given free will can effect. Hence bringing up cancer and tornados.

    So what if the creator also made puppies and rainbows? If the creator is all powerful then it needs to be held to the ultimate high standard of all good and no bad in order to call it benevolent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  10. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    "atheists"___Swensson

    In the first place there is no such thing as an atheist.

    I have a choice. I can believe what some humans
    claim --- humans whose minds have been corrupted by
    the Sin Principle, or I can believe what God said in
    His word the Holy Bible. I choose to believe what the
    Bible says.

    Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
    God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
    them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
    qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
    been clearly seen, being understood from what has
    been made, so that people are without excuse."

    Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
    {1) There is information that can be known about God.
    {2} This information is plain to men.
    {3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
    {4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
    {5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
    {6} All this in understood from what God created.
    {7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

    Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
    for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
    of the Human Person, the Earth-Sun-Moon-Stars, and the Universe.

    Humans Assert Many Foolish And Incorrect Claims , , ,


    Just because some men say they lack belief in the existence
    of God does not mean that they actually DO lack belief in the
    existence of God. On Christian lights, God, in Romans, and in
    other Bible verses, says there is no such thing as an atheist.
    {see list of those 5 Bible references below}

    Add this , , ,
    Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth." Atheists
    are part of humanity, so Romans 1:18 applies to them also.

    Add this , , ,
    Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
    "written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
    created them.

    _____________

    The Heavens "Speak" And Tell You There Is A God , , ,


    Psalm 19:1-4 says , , ,
    "The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
    Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
    They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
    Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world."

    So?
    So all men know there is a God.
    There is no such thing as an atheist in the first place.
    Its nothing but pseudo-intellectualism when "atheists"
    claim they "lack faith in God." They do NOT. They
    KNOW there is a God. God in the Bible specifically
    teaches they DO KNOW there is a God.

    Eternity , , ,

    Add this , , ,
    Ecclesiastes 3:11 says , , ,
    "He has also set eternity in the human heart"


    The Bible Teaches There Are No Atheists , , ,


    So then I will stand with this:
    These Bible verses clearly teach there is no such thing
    as an atheist.
    Romans 1:18-20
    Romans 1:18
    Romans 2:15
    Psalm 19:1-4
    Ecclesiastes 3:11
    ________________


    JAG Writes His Views On What Some Atheists Say:
    {1) I am an atheist.
    {2} i don't believe in God.
    {3} But He may exist.
    {4} I can't prove He does.
    {5} I can't prove He doesn't.
    {6} The Bible says He is Omnipotent.
    {7} That means He is all powerful.
    {8} He could have created a different world.
    {9} But He did not do that.
    {10} He created the world we now have.
    {11} That means He is responsible for all that exists.
    {12} Therefore God is responsible for bone cancer in children.
    {13} I want to be consistent with this principle.
    {14} Therefore God is also responsible for Hospitals and the Red Cross

    Swensson,
    Regarding "atheists" and the Problem Of Evil:
    I will tell you again and again and again that I do
    not care what "atheists" think or say about the
    Problem Of Evil, if they mention my 6-12, I will
    request that they embrace my 11 and state
    my 14.

    ___________

    The unaware atheists , , ,
    I can request, if I want to, atheists who do not
    mention my 6 -12 to still observe my 14 and give
    God the credit for the good things He does --- even
    if those atheists are not even aware of the
    Problem Of Evil and have never even heard
    a word about it.

    The very rare and unusual atheists , , , ,
    You do not know that there are not some atheists out there
    that postulate the existence of God doing good things
    totally apart from Him doing evil things. I can assume that
    there are some atheists that do that, and then I can request
    that they continue to do that, and then state my 14 with
    special enthusiasm and gusto.

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  11. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Well, this seems to me only to reinforce the idea that what the Bible says (and your interpretation of what the Bible says) simply doesn't align with reality.
     
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  12. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I am sure it does not align with your views of what
    is reality. But it does align with my views of what is
    reality.
    You will not give up your Secular Humanism, which on
    my lights is your Religion Of Secular Humanism.
    Neither will I , , ,
    Give up my Religion Of Christianity which teaches me
    that there is no such thing as an atheist.

    I have a choice. I can believe what some humans
    claim --- humans whose minds have been corrupted by
    the Sin Principle, or I can believe what God said in
    His word the Holy Bible. I choose to believe what the
    Bible says.

    So?

    So then I will stand with this:
    These Bible verses clearly teach there is no such thing
    as an atheist.
    Romans 1:18-20
    Romans 1:18
    Romans 2:15
    Psalm 19:1-4
    Ecclesiastes 3:11

    _____________


    By the way, thank you for responding to several of my
    posts, I appreciate you doing that -- and thank you for
    reading what I write to you -- I appreciate that too.

    Best.

    JAG

    More later , , , ,


    ``
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Again I have no need to read past your first sentence. Atheists don't interpret christian doctrine. They ignore it. If not then they aren't atheists.
     
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  14. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    When you say "what God said", you really mean "what some humans claim that God said". Relying on the Bible doesn't alleviate the idea that they can simply have been wrong (or for that matter, even your own "Sin Principle"). The only difference is that you have additional, unreliable, steps in your reasoning.
     
  15. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Okay.
    They interpret Christian doctrine inside Thread World
    constantly and constantly post their interpretations
    of what the Bible says and also their interpretations
    of certain Christian doctrines.
    They do not.
    "Atheists" talk about the God-That-Does-Not-Exist
    constantly. They cannot get the God-That-Does-Not-Exist
    off their minds.
    There is no such thing as an atheist.
    All men know there is a God.
    These Bible verses/passages explain why all men
    KNOW there is a God.
    Romans 1:18-20
    Romans 2:15
    Romans 1:18 {men "suppress the truth"}
    Psalm 19:1-4
    Eccl. 3:11

    Best.

    JAG

    Scot Me Up Beamy.

    __________


    Thought For Today

    "For you know the grace of our LORD Jesus Christ,
    that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became
    poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich."
    __2 Cor. 8;(


    ``



    ``
     
  16. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I really do not.
    My strong Faith Belief is that the Sovereign God used His
    Sovereign power to "God-breathed" the Holy Scriptures so
    that they are His Word to human beings. The word in
    2 Timothy 3:16 is "God breathed" and it means
    "God inspired" the Holy Bible. See the phrase
    "God breathed" in big bolded red in the passage
    below and note the context of the whole passage.

    Here is The Great New Testament Passage
    On The Inspiration Of The Holy Bible In
    2 Timothy 3:10-17

    "You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my
    purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions,
    sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch,
    Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord
    rescued me from all of them. In fact, everyone who wants to
    live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while
    evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving
    and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you
    have learned and have become convinced of, because you
    know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy
    you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you
    wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is
    God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting
    and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may
    be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    End quote.

    Swensson, the vast majority of the Evangelical World of worldwide
    Christendom has that passage up there highlighted in our Bibles
    and we believe it true.

    If you wish to understand where Bible believing Christians are
    "coming from" then you need to understand what 2 Timothy
    3: 10-17 says.
    You don't get it, my friend.
    Christianity really is true.
    There really is a Holy Spirit that actually does regenerate the
    individual who sincerely prays the Sinner's Prayer "God be
    merciful to me a sinner and save me because I trust in the
    Lord Jesus as my Savior."
    It is the Holy Spirit that produces Faith in the heart and mind.

    And that gives us Faith to believe what the Scriptures teach.

    It is supernatural and therefore it is "beyond your reach."
    You can never use "Logic" and "Empiricism" to reach the
    Christian mind.

    You owe it to yourself to take a deeper look at what Christianity
    really is -- and what it believes. By the way, you have no idea what
    you're "missing out on" --- I'd give just about anything if I could
    "open your mind" to the truth of Christianity --- alas THAT can
    ONLY be done by the Holy Spirit --- and Step 1 is for you to
    have the desire for it to be done. If that never becomes a reality
    in your life then , , well , , that's an ugly thought. I have confidence
    that you will one day become a Christian. I pray to that end.
    And why wouldn't I -- you're to valuable to end up with the
    same identical destiny-End as a LION . . . /Big Grin , , ,

    , , , ceasing to exist as in Oblivion >>> 00000000

    Best,

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    If there is no such thing as an atheist then why do you say they interpret scripture? You don't see a logical flaw there.
     
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  18. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Well-Known Member

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    Jag talks about the Atheist-That-Does-Not-Exist who talk about the God-That-Does-Not-Exist its ummm obvious!
     
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  19. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    No logical flaw there at all.
    Did you notice the " . .. . . ." marks that I put
    around the word atheists when I wrote this
    to you?

    JAG Wrote To Fmw:
    They do not.
    "Atheists" talk about the God-That-Does-Not-Exist
    constantly. They cannot get the God-That-Does-Not-Exist
    off their minds.___JAG

    The quote marks indicated that I was using the word
    "atheists" in a special way.

    NRA-Atheist , , ,
    But more importantly, what word could I possible use
    other than atheists to refer to the people that incorrectly
    claim they are atheists? I would have to "coin" a special
    word for them , , , I could do that , , I could "coin" a special
    word, maybe I could "coin" the word "NRA-Atheist" and then define
    "NRA-Atheist" as Not-Really-An-Atheist" , , , but why go to all
    that trouble. Rather I will keep on using the word atheist and now
    and then I will explain that I do not personally believe there is any
    such thing as an atheist.

    I have a question for you. Why do you personally care what I
    believe about that? What difference does it make to you what
    I personally believe about that issue. I have a reasonable Biblical
    case for me believing that there is no such thing as an atheist.

    I am a Bible believer so what I believe is reasonable from my
    point of view --- so its not like I was presenting something that
    made no sense whatsoever.

    As a Bible believer the following makes good sense.

    There is no such thing as an atheist.

    I have a choice. I can believe what some humans
    claim --- humans whose minds have been corrupted by
    the Sin Principle, or I can believe what God said in
    His word the Holy Bible. I choose to believe what the
    Bible says.

    Romans 1:19-20 , , ,
    Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
    God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
    them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
    qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
    been clearly seen, being understood from what has
    been made, so that people are without excuse."

    Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
    {1) There is information that can be known about God.
    {2} This information is plain to men.
    {3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
    {4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
    {5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
    {6} All this in understood from what God created.
    {7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

    Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
    for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
    of the Human Person, the Earth-Sun-Moon-Stars, and the Universe.

    Humans Assert Many Foolish And Incorrect Claims , , ,

    Just because some men say they lack belief in the existence
    of God does not mean that they actually DO lack belief in the
    existence of God. On Christian lights, God, in Romans, and in
    other Bible verses, says there is no such thing as an atheist.
    {see list of those 5 Bible references below}

    Add this , , ,
    Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth." Atheists
    are part of humanity, so Romans 1:18 applies to them also.

    Add this , , ,
    Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
    "written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
    created them.

    _____________

    The Heavens "Speak" And Tell You There Is A God , , ,

    Psalm 19:1-4 says , , ,
    "The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
    Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
    They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
    Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world."

    So?
    So all men know there is a God.
    There is no such thing as an atheist in the first place.
    Its nothing but pseudo-intellectualism when "atheists"
    claim they "lack faith in God." They do NOT. They
    KNOW there is a God. God in the Bible specifically
    teaches they DO KNOW there is a God.

    Eternity , , ,

    Add this , , ,
    Ecclesiastes 3:11 says , , ,
    "He has also set eternity in the human heart"


    The Bible Teaches There Are No Atheists , , ,

    So then I will stand with this:
    These Bible verses clearly teach there is no such thing
    as an atheist.
    Romans 1:18-20
    Romans 1:18
    Romans 2:15
    Psalm 19:1-4
    Ecclesiastes 3:11

    _______________


    Best.

    JAG


    Thought For Today:

    "For it is by grace you have been saved, through
    faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift
    of God."
    Ephesians 2:8


    ``
     
  20. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    Holy crap.
     
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  21. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I am unfamiliar with Holy Crap.
    Is that a religion?
    Probably not.
    I have never heard of the Religion Of Holy Crap.
    However there are many religions in the world
    that I have heard about -- some examples are
    the , , ,

    ~ Religion Of Evolution
    ~ Religion Of Atheism
    ~ Religion Of False-god-Science
    ~ Religion of False-god-Intellectualism
    ~ Religion Of Secular Humanism

    __________

    Thank you for your comment of "Holy crap."
    My feeling is that it elevated the conversation to
    greater heights.

    In closing this post, I say , , ,

    May the Lord Bless you.
    May the Lord Bless and Keep you.
    May the Lord make His face shine upon you.
    May the Lord be gracious unto you.
    May the Lord turn His face toward you.
    May the Lord always give you His peace.
    May the Lord always protect you.
    May the Lord always protect all those you love.
    {Based on Numbers 6:24-27}

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  22. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    Balloon, meet pin.
     
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  23. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your insights.

    JAG

    Bible Verse For Today.

    "Surely God is my salvation; I will trust
    and not be afraid. The Lord, the Lord
    himself, is my strength and my defense;
    he has become my salvation."
    Isaiah 12:2


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  24. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I don't see how this resolves the problem. When you say "what God said", you really mean "what some humans claim that God said". In this case, it is Paulus (or someone claiming to be Paulus, authorship is disputed) who claims it is God-breathed. You didn't show that there wasn't fallible human contribution to your logic, you introduced more of it.

    Unless you can demonstrate that it is so, this doesn't amount to anything more convincing than the Nigerian prince really promising to give you the money if you hand over your bank details. Simply proclaiming something as true obviously does nothing to demonstrate that it is so, although it does show a demonstrable flaw in your ability to find truths.

    Ok, then I guess we have no reason to believe it is true. Logic and empiricism (together with some other things) can keep us from being duped, you have provided nothing that avoids you being duped.

    I've had plenty of look into Christianity, of several denominations.

    If you're so willing to open my mind to it, how come you're not providing anything that actually demonstrates its truth? You seem unable, either by there not being anything like that, or you not being able to identify it. Either way, it doesn't speak well for your ideas.
     

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