Bernie Sanders unveils universal healthcare bill: 'We will win this struggle'

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by LafayetteBis, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Guardian newspaper: Bernie Sanders unveils universal healthcare bill: 'We will win this struggle' - excerpt:
    I write from France, in the European Union (EU). Where 735 million souls - living in 28 countries (so demographically comparable to the US) - are covered by National HealthCare Insurance because it is a condition for joining the EU. That number (735M) is more than double the US-population, and far, far more than the percentage of Americans with bonafide low-cost HealthCare Insurance. (Note that I am not saying that National Health Coverage is 100% free, gratis and for nothing. Some EU-countries do have private insurance that compensates the National Healthcare coverage - but that family insurance costs rarely more than 150/200€ a month - the dollar and euro being at about parity nowadays).

    The average GP in the US earn more than $200K per year. (Verify that fact by looking it up at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Code 29-1060, "Physicians & Surgeons" here.) The average EU physician earns about half as much - see that fact demonstrated here. Why?

    Because Healthcare in the EU is not a "free market". The profession is considered so important to well-being that it must be managed by a National HealthCare System ...

    PS1: Which is also the reason why pharmaceutical companies barely break-even in Europe, and go off to the US to gouge their clients.
    PS2: And why
    lifespan and total healthcare costs are so remarkably different between the EU and the US. See that fact infographically here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also from Bernie and worth a read: Most Americans want universal healthcare. What are we waiting for?

    Excerpt:
     
  3. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I thought Medicare was full of holes of coverage and you need to buy private insurance to make up the difference??? Some single payer plan that is, Medicare for all.

    I prefer Medicaid.
     
  4. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Every single study done on Medicaid proves that it significantly reduces access and provides far worse outcomes than any private insurance plan. Bernie's plan is to expand Medicare to cover everything, including vision and dental, at zero cost savings.
     
  5. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what a nursing assistant, orderly, janitor, etc made in a German hospital until 2011? Next to nothing, because most of them were conscripts. Slavery is always cheaper
     
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  6. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, I guess I'm lucky then. My area is full of health services and I use them.
     
  7. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    The individual always fares better than the aggregate. Wages are stagnant and pensions dead, unless you ask me.
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cheap shot.

    From here: http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Country=Germany/Salary
    Gross Salary (full time):
    Source: www.destatis.de Living & Working in Germany, © Bundesagentur für Arbeit
    Occupation gross salary (avg) per year/ per month (euros):
    Physicians: 75.733 / 6.031
    Assistant Doctor: 55.000 / 4.230
    Specialist Doctor: 56.500 / 4.346
    Nurses, Midwifes: 34.664 / 2.722
    Nurse Assistants: / Carer: 28.746 / 2.238

    If you mean the Nurses-category, that salary between 28 & 35K euros is not bad given the minimum wage is 1500€ per month (18K€ per year) ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  9. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    A specialist won't even be able to afford his malpractice insurance in the US with those wages.


    I applaud you though. You bring up the biggest reason why health care under a single payer system will bankrupt the US.
     
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  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Vermont, Bernie's own state, and one of the bluest states in the union, tossed out their own single payer plan. If Vermont won't do it, why would a GOP Congress pass this?
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And guess what? The governments of France and the UK have been having to bring in foreign doctors from other countries (mostly India and the ME) because there weren't enough of them at home willing to work for the going rate.

    How convenient. Provide cheap medical care to all by bringing in cheap doctors from other parts of the world. Well that's turning into one less job natives want to do.

    At the very least, I think there should be a clear disclaimer written into any universal health bill: UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL FOREIGN DOCTORS BE BROUGHT IN WHEN THIS UNIVERSAL HEALTH SYSTEM AND PRICE FIXING RESULT IN AN INEVITABLE SHORTAGES OF DOCTORS.

    If you can't find enough doctors willing to work and go through all that school in your own country, something is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Bernie's bill eliminate's private insurance. So employer provided healthcare will be outlawed.

    Weird, even the far left Daily Kos says that's going to far. They would make it illegal for any insurance company to provide coverage for anything that's provided by the Medicare for all.
     
  13. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to most nursing assistants being conscripts, paid conscript wages, which at the time was 35 Euro a day.
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Always interesting when someone makes a claim and yet can't actually be bothered to post one single link to any responsible study. Could it possibly be that there are no studies that support the claims. And the answer is yes, of course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  15. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

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    Link. Always helps to consider the alternatives being offered.

     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    One single link
     
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  17. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

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    And still none to any responsible study.
     
  18. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sorry I thought the discussion was about Medicare. Ha, ha.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The comment you replied to was about Medicaid.

    Ha Ha!
     
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Guess you didn't bother to actually read the post I was responding to did you? It mentions both, but the thread is about Medicare for all not Medicaid for all. Try to think before you post and you will lokk a bit more intelligent.
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha!

    The remark about a study was on Medicaid!

    Ha Ha! At some point you should probably stop but I know you won't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  22. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Yes I understand which it is why it is stupid to post it when the discussion is about Medicare for all. Now perhaps you would like to try again to find an article relevent to the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  23. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Then it was stupid of you to ask for for "one single link to any responsible study" in response to a comment about Medicaid.

    You asked, I answered, and should at least get a think you, instead of your desperate floundering around.
     
  24. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...er-patients-survival-time-to-insurance-status

    From NPR no less. Liberals are constantly screaming like banshees about Medicare Part D not negotiating drug prices, yet never seem to understand why government paying the lowest bidder never ****ing works. If you pay the least(which Medicaid does) you receive the absolute worst care.
     
  25. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Specifically said Medicaid, in reference to the poor results stemming from Federal best pricing practices that liberals constantly claim will "save money". Medicaid is **** insurance, and everyone knows it, which is why it's "Medicare for All", except it will be Medicaid for All.
     

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