Both Sides are Bad for America

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by submarinepainter, Oct 6, 2021.

  1. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see the R and D's destroying everything, I can't be part of them
     
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  2. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both sides love spending and debt
     
  3. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The difference between you and I is that I am not lying. Evidence:

    January 6 and the conspiracy that led to it was a Trump/Republican effort and the result is the diminishing of democracy and confidence in it, in America.

    End of argument
     
  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't. You sound like a cynic or a nihilist or both.

    Are you?
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    States have a rainy day fund? Sorry, I don't believe it.
     
  6. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    An even bigger difference is your fondness for logical fallacies, such as this completely unfounded argumentum ad hominem - which is also a violation of forum rules. If your argument is so weak that you cannot substantiate it without attacking your opponent, perhaps you should find a new hobby.

    Our "democracy" died long before you and I were ever even a twinkle in our great great grandparents' eyes. A duopoly -- such as that to which we are currently subject -- is a pathetic substitute for a bona fide representative republic. Having to pick the least worst option is no democracy.

    Oh, Pat... Oh Pat... WE'VE ONLY JUST BEGUN!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  7. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Sounds like a realist to me.
     
  8. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  9. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    am I cynical well I am but I am unenrolled and vote for the best person in my opinion. I like to believe I am human and independent. beholding not to Joe Biden but myself
     
  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Most forums I"ve ever been a contributor to would allow for one member to call another member a liar, if it could be corroborated.
    We're not allowed to do that here, but we are allowed to assert someone is not being truthful.

    Which means the same thing. See, I think the moderators are striving for politeness. But, so much on this board is far from polite yet all of that gets through.

    Really, If I hurt your feelings, report me.

    I don't mind, really.

    I did substantiate it with the reference to 1/6.
    No, it hasn't died. It's just on life support. But, if Republicans win back the white house, that will kill it for sure. Yes, that is partisan but I think the evidence points to that conclusion.

    What, are you a cynic?

    Say it isn't so.
     
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's one way to rationalize cynicism.
     
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I get cynicism, because some intelligent people, seeing the folly of man, become cynics. My GF is like that.

    However, add a little more wisdom to the mix and one can easily see that cynicism is a dead end.

    That is why I'm an optimist. Good that you vote, so you're not a total cynic.
     
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  13. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Irrelevant.

    Which would be a logical fallacy regardless of the veracity or your claim.

    Irrelevant.

    Fallacy. Argumentum ad hominem: I am not the topic of this thread. A factual rebuttal addressing the topic would better support your position.

    No. You posted a logical fallacy referencing your opponent's character - which is not the topic of this thread. Ergo, you substantiated nothing.

    Ringing endorsement for the least worst option. Yeah, America!

    Fallacy. Argumentum ad hominem: I am not the topic of this thread. A factual rebuttal addressing the topic would better support your position.
     
  14. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Trump got impeached twice. Trump tried to incite a violent coup. Most sane people know the difference between and R and D.
     
  15. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    This assumes it needs to be rationalized.
     
  16. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    WTF are you talking about? Let's go back in the conversation:

    No, you injected yourself late in the conversation I was having with submarinepainter who responded to Turd in the punchbowls comment:

    Republicans are worse though even if you’re playing middle.

    Then submarinepainter responded to that with:

    That's opinion man , I think they all have issues

    Since submarinepainter is basically saying both parties are equally bad, I disagreed with:

    Oh, I dunno, something about the right destroying democracy kinda puts them on the worst side of the coin

    You replied with a rhetorical device, substituting 'right' with 'left' asserting that you 'fixed it for me'.

    I replied by backing my assertion up with:

    January 6 and the conspiracy that led to it was a Trump/Republican effort and the result is the diminishing of democracy and confidence in it, in America.


    That is what occurred, nothing about referencing anyone's character, and it's not a logical fallacy whatsoever. Of course, the debate on that point doesn't end there, but at the minimum, it puts a brake on submarinepainter's, and your, point.

    Therefore, because of this, I don't agree that the right and left are equally bad, which is the subject under debate, and I have no idea what you are talking about, you injected yourself into the conversation.
    My answer to you is to abstain from comments that beckon for that kind of response, to wit:

    let's examine what you wrote:

    Our "democracy" died long before you and I were ever even a twinkle in our great great grandparents' eyes

    Your comment is, indeed, (in my opinion) an opinion consistent with that of a cynic, at least to a degree, so it kinda begged the question of whether you are, or are not, a cynic, as a matter of conservational curiosity, NOT as a trick to go full on ad homimem. .

    There is NO HINT that I intended to use that against you, that is, if you are a cynic, I'm okay with that, you just piqued my curiosity, that's all. Of course, if you are a cynic, that would explain your all-too-quick assumption I was doing an ad hominem.

    so, it doesn't really qualify as 'argumentum ad hominem', as it was just a conversational response. That's it.

    But, if you really want to stick to real debate tactics, don't be given to rhetorical devices ( as you have done) and broad claims that reek more of emotion than fact, as your comment did. And you are nitpicking me?

    I got bad news for you, this forum does, on occasion, result in conversational exchanges not strict to forum rules, and that happens on every debate forum that ever existed. You'll be better off if you just get used to it.

    See, the time to really complain about OT exchanges is when it becomes egregious.

    This exchange seems OT, but it isn't, it's an merely attempt to correct your misunderstanding of some concepts.







     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  17. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    Meh… team D wants me to acknowledge that men can have babies. They all suck differently, but in equal amounts of suck.
     
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  18. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Fascinating.
     
  19. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, not saying you are, but that would be a response characteristic of a cynic.

    Cynicism is a particular lens some use to look at life, it assumes the worst in people.

    That doesn't mean some people are without suspicion, but cynicism assumes everyone in, let's say, politics, for example, is motivated purely by self-interest. The concept of pan-determinism or the desire to help one's fellow man in public service beyond the self-profit motive does not exist for a cynic.

    I don't buy it because it's a dead end philosophy.

    I get it, however, because intelligence, viewing the folly of man, can easily lead one to that outlook. However, applying some wisdom to the mix, it's simply a dead end.

    I prefer optimism, but not to the exclusion of realism, which you alluded to, but in my book, cynicism and realism aren't 100% the same thing. .
     
  20. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Argumentum ad hominem: Latin, "argument to the man." I am not the topic of this thread. You opinion of me is not rationally related to the topic. A factual rebuttal addressing the topic would better support your argument.
     
  21. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Cynicism is simply the belief that people are motivated primarily by self-interest. Again, nothing that requires justification.
     
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Go bother someone else.
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No act one might not be proud of actually requires justification. But some do it, anyway. That someone did it, I commented.

    "requirement" is beside the point.
     
  24. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and what a waste of time, The dossier was fake, Comey and FBI need to be charged
     
  25. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Concession accepted.
     

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