Braking News : Putin sent tanks deep into Ukrainian territory

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by litwin, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    I'm not the one taking sides here. I'm simply pointing out that you are the one doing exactly that. based on zero confirmation or critical thought. I'm not the one making a definitive claim on the topic one way or another, therefore I'm not the one getting constantly duped by Pentagon hoaxes like the "mandatory registration of Jews" flyers and all that bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

    I have only stated what I know to be facts, and have cited nobody insodoing. This is the same reason I've not declared that Kiev illegally used White Phosphorous.. I wait until there's something solid to indicate it.

    Me pointing out you taking sides is not the same thing as me taking sides myself. Not everything must be so blatantly polarized to exclude facts to the contrary.

    I state facts and if those facts to show Russia in a better light than Kiev, or indicate that Kiev and Kerry are blatant liars on the topic, or happen to coincide more often to what RT say than CNN, then oh well, not my problem.

    And if not? Then you'll shed the due tears and acknowledge the tragedy that innocent civilians got killed?

    By the way, your linguistic revisionism non-withstanding, "terrorism" is defined by every definition as attacks against civilians. Russia haven't attacked any civilians, and it is in fact Kiev that are continuously doing that.
     
  2. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Don't quote my question if you don't have the guts to even attempt to provide an answer. Are the Russians drunk and incompetent idiots are they the next biggest threat to humanity since hitler himself?
     
  3. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nobody in mainstream German media is calling these East-Ukrainian freedom fighters "terrorists", they are officially called "separatists". And nobody is calling in mainstream German media for the ethnic cleansing of the territory of Lugansk and Donezk from its native pro-Russian population.

    But some extremists in this forum (who pretend to be "mainstream Germans") call these freedom fighters "terrorist" and call for the ethnic cleansing of Lugansk and Donbass from its native pro-Russian population, which is a crime.
     
  4. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    I don't side with any "sources" I side with verifiable facts only. I didn't cite any sources whatsoever, rather, you disingenuously misinterpreted the story the BBC were actually reporting, pretending there is any news other than mere allegations being made.

    Like here's a fact for you: This battle, and this armed conflict were started by Kiev, on the support/advice of Washington. They are the ones who reneged on their treaty promise to try a peaceful negotiation to the standoff, and have been waging a violent war ever since. For proof of that you can refer to the horse's mouth directly, as you automatically believe anyway.

    As for the "international community", what does that even actually mean? This is just more of the John Kerry linguistic abuse you always refer to, like your frivolous use of "terrorists" and "democracy" and all that.

    As for the UN, Kiev only just got done making this allegation; it has in no ways been confirmed and voted on by the UN. Nevertheless, would you even care? Are these not the same UN who declared that Yanakovich was freely and squarely and democratically elected? That was never good enough!
     
  5. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    You could call them insurgents, militants, rebels, separtists etc.but the one thing you couldn't call them is "terrorists".

    What these people don't realise is that with such frivolous abuse of terminology and comparisons to hitler etc. they are only undermining their own argument.

    I mean, say they are terrorists. Then being a "terrorist" isn't such a bad thing, considering that peaceful protestors, environmentalists etc. get labelled as the same.
     
  6. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    It's an interesting and unclear story.

    The CNN article shows a number of medium self propelled artillery pieces and not tanks and of course they are in the Crimea which would not be the best place to transfer to the Donetsk separatists if that is indeed the case.

    However a DM article shows some T80 tanks which were used quite a bit by the Ukrainian army and this is bearing in mind that the Russians now use the T90 tanks.

    My theory with the artillery pieces is that they are being relocated to within the Crimea in order to assist the Crimea self defence battalion.
    This is mostly because moving artillery in areas still easily reached by the Ukrainian army is a great way to seem them destroyed.

    The T80's are quite possibly looted although it's difficult to tell due to a lack of information.

    I think that for Putin to send military assistance to the Donetsk peoples republic is asking for some very serious trouble.
     
  7. Kiwi33

    Kiwi33 New Member

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    Certainly legally -from God, Russians have to right protect Russians .
    Ukrainians they Russians too , it they only think (to them inspired) that they are Ukrainians. If the Ukrainian goes to other country like NZ- them there call Russian.
    ps: Borat, As many call also people from Kazakhstan Russians - probably because together were in the USSR:smile:
     
  8. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    do mainstream German medias call Ukrainian state - Nazi state, Ukrainian government - Junta/Bandera ? if No why you do it ?
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    freedom fighters don't prevent people from voting by destroying ballot boxes, voting papers, and locking voting stations.

    that's what Fascists and Communists do.
     
  10. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    go and protect your moscovite girls from Chechen gangs in any of your cities , not ready , right?
     
  11. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    oceans of oil-gas, and western oligarchs who think that "Pecunia non olet "

    - - - Updated - - -

    +1......
     
  12. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    Tanks story has the clear connection to this story http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=360697&p=1063978549#post1063978549
     
  13. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Jeannette, their Ukrainian passports say so. Duh lol
     
  14. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    I don't think so.
    As I said the CNN story shows the movement of 2S1 Gvozdika artillery whereas the Pravda story which you've linked describes that the only artillery pieces were BM21's.
    Also if this really is Russian state support then why send so few vehicles?

    I think that it's likely that they acquired them from the Ukrainian army and it's possible as there was a military base in the Donetsk region.
    And I don't think that the Chechens are there on behalf of Putin or Kadyrov but rather privately.
     
  15. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    my point was that its a serial of black flag attacks much like in 1939

    what do you know about Chechen clans? with out a sanction of the most powerful warlord Kadyrov such a move simply is impossible
     
  16. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the German on this forum is presenting more of a Turkish viewpoint than a German one. :confuse:
     
  17. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    much like you Greekish , with anther words Christian Turkish one
     
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The whole thing is ridiculous, because if Russia was going to invade it would do so in full force, and with a lot more modern equipment. It wouldn't send a few run down tanks. Now Kiev knows the tanks are not Russian, and they know some Ukrainian soldiers surrendered with their tanks, and that the freedom fighters weren't going to give them back. So why do they persist with those lies, but then again doesn't our government? I know one State Department spokesperson comes out with so many lies and contradiction, that in Russia she's considered a comic relief. :lol:
     
  19. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    There's no doubt that the Pravda article states that there has been some trickery.
    But it doesn't seem as if it's coming from Putin and all I'm trying to ascertain is what stories are accurate and whether or not Russia is deliberately supporting the Donetsk separatists.

    I have an interest.
    But irrespective of whether Kadyrov can control his people or not it doesn't take much for some veterans to get in their car and drive to Donetsk.
    In fact a similar thing happened with the Chetniks in Crimea in which they volunteered themselves.
     
  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Litwin, what is a Christian Turk? Do you mean the Christians who came from Turkey? I mean I'm trying to figure out what goes on in that mind of yours...if anything that is. :banana:
     
  21. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    True but they would still have to worry about NATO if Putin moves towards Kiev.
    If they were Russian then I'd say that it's risky and odd that they would do so.
    Apparently they've also been raiding museums and restarting the old T34's which I must admit is a bit foolhardy.
    It's clear that the Ukraine crisis has created some very distinct perceptions and as is often the case there's also a lot false information around.
    I think the old saying of the "first casualty of war is the truth" is somewhat appropriate.
     
  22. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    No, they can not do so, they can never return and their Teips leaders will be brutally punished

    Serbs has left tribal society many 100s ago
     
  23. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    so- called Greeks who British gays Like Lord Byron 19c creation , Turk punished gays , British gays needed gay Thailand for themselves rest is just a history
     
  24. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    can you see a difference between a KiselevĀ“s propaganda machine and ukranien free medias?
     
  25. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    And yet Kadyrov has stated that not one of his soldiers have entered the Ukraine and there could be volunteers.
    As far as I know no one in Chechnya has been punished for this.
    I find that it's better to take it with a pinch of salt when it comes to the news and to second guess.
     

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