British Royal Marine commandos force US Marines into humiliating surrender halfway through five-day

What? Not hunting down corrupted, seditious & treasonous bureaucrats?

 

That is often the life of an Infantryman (or any other combat arms) on active duty during the summer. We do things like "Infantry Games" all year long. Which means when the Reservists need to do their two weeks of Active Duty in the summer that means being the bad guys against them. Two weeks in the field as the bad guys, a week home with the family, then another two weeks in the field. From 2 to 4 times each year.

We literally did it every day, on our own base. They were the "visiting team" doing the most consecutive time they would do in a year. We were never intended to "beat them", we had to make it a challenge, but also show them that they could still do good, as otherwise it would crush their morale.

I have known those that have been stationed at places like Stumps. They never expected to win, that was never the point. It was to train those that were there for 2-4 weeks how to operate in a desert, then in the final exercises give them the confidence that they actually learned something, and could then fight in such an environment.

I knew those stationed at MacGreggor Range in New Mexico, same thing. They literally knew every inch of where they were "fighting", but had to pretend they were "idiot Jihadis" when attacking the visiting units, so they would feel more confident when they went downrange for real. We on active duty knew it was mostly a game, but one of the main purposes was to instill the knowledge we had, and the confidence so that when they went downrange for real, they did not realize how green they might actually be. Hell, at MacGreggor in the "Simulated FOB and village", they even played "Call to Prayer" at the proper times. Just to teach them that during those times, they were to do nothing but take up defensive positions so as to not offend the locals.

Training I believe is always good. But one also needs to realize it is only training, and not "real life". Hell, I about freaked out my instructors at the "Mini-bootcamp" I had to do for a month when I joined the Army. We were in an oversized squad, and as a squad leader I was told to put them into 3 "Fire team wedges" to move to a danger area and cross it. And yes, I admit I might lose most non-military to read it, but most military (especially grunts) will get it.

I formed my squad into a wedge, and two fire team echelons. Then had them move to on-line as we hit the edge of the danger area. Cadre ran out and asked me what in the hell I was doing. I explained it to him, he told me to go back and do it again as he told us to do.

And to give him credit, that night he called me to his office, and told me I gave the right commands. For an infantryman. But we were taking people from all branches, many of them out for 5 years or more out so they were getting the absolute minimum "Barney Style" instruction of Infantry tactics. And I got that, as many in my class that were Navy and Air Force were completely lost in almost anything related to the Infantry. And that was not even unique. Over the next 12+ years, I was primarily in Air Defense and Medical units, and their idea of "Infantry" was largely a joke, and far from reality. It was hard as an E-4 who had been a grunt for a decade to see an E-6 "jack it up by the numbers" because he had spent 14 years as a PATRIOT crewman. And had likely at most only met a grunt and never served as one.

It was only years later that I was told that the First Sergeant had told the "Platoon Sergeant" to listen to anything I suggested, as I was the only one in the recon platoon that had actually been trained in what we were supposed to be doing. I did not even realize at the time that the Platoon Leader would come up and ask me what I thought before he asked anybody else. And a few times we did mock patrols for training, I would spot the ambush long before anybody else in the platoon sized formation.

I was not any kind of "Super Soldier", it simply had been my job for a decade so I knew what to actually look for and they did not. Hell, my first time ever sleeping in a cot was in the Army, I never saw one my entire time in the Marines as mostly I slept on the ground in a 2 man tent.

 

Wanna bet most that make claims like that never actually served?

 

Yes indeed, I too, know the life of an infantryman. I spent 4 years as a 'grunt' soldier (Private) a year as a Lance Corporal and the remainder of my as a Corporal (section commander). I did & didn't want to leave that role. @ 30, I was keeping up with 19-25-year-olds in my section. I was becoming a football player closing in on his final years. Worn out.
Earlier, I had the opportunity and was suggested I do SAS (AUS) selection, two many coin tosses on that one. I was told I had every quality they desire in a trooper, but I was F'd, physically. Being able to do my current job was becoming challenging enough. I met my wife-to-be during that period, and that changed everything. My heart was no longer in it for the 'Green Machine'. So, after East Timor and receiving a letter in country, from the mob that manages soldier's careers telling me I wouldn't be considered for promotion courses fo at least 36 months on return to Aus. We were in E.T for 6 months. I was gutted. Another 4 years and then consideration? I would have been 35 by then and I would have needed a body transplant by then. I did my time in E.T and discharged on return to Aus. the following year in 2002.
The best part of my life was in the army, with no regrets, plenty of memories and a bucket load of devious skills.

 

I hear little whispers that major events will happen in the very near future. As with most rumours like this, the questions are Who's involved good & bad, when & why? That's the thing, the left doesn't know they're going to have it handed to them. BIG TIME. That's how optimistic I am.

 

Perhaps this is a result of our military (or even just the forces involved in this exercize) being more trained to fight asymetric insurgencies than it is other technologically modern world powers.

Then again, maybe the Royal Marines just used more correct pronouns...

 

Sorry, but them being "multinational" doesn't say anything about the size. They are building a "multinational" NATO division in Estonia, but its still just one division, which made up of 4 brigades, each from a different nation (none from US). As a matter of fact, one of the bridges will be these newly structured Royal Marines (mentioned in the article).

PS According to the article the exercise was for the benefit of the US Marines, not the visitors as you assumed.

 

Well, think about this. I did the same, but a grunt for 10 years. Then returned from the Marines to the Army at 42.

I had shot knees and a bad back, and an aggravation to an old knee injury meant that for my last 6 years I did not have to run but do a 2.5 mile power walk for PT tests.

As luck would have it, my last 2 years in active duty I had a Lieutenant that was an Army enlisted Infantryman before he got a commission and went Air Defense. And he thought his platoon needed more training in "fundamentals". Now a "No run" status from the medics also includes things like marches with packs, but I actually went to the doctor and asked them to remove that for me so I could take part in the 4-6 mile marches we did once a week.

Now realize, a lot of the "kids" that were younger than my own kid were giving me a hard time because I could not run. But I was the one laughing as I ruck marched their "dicks into the dirt". Keeping a roughly 6-7 mph pace with the Lieutenant, everybody else strung out way behind us. As in, finishing a 5 mile march almost 30 minutes after I did.

The last one I did, I went back about a half mile to encourage those having a problem to keep going. Sometimes even taking 2 and 3 other packs in addition to my own. Then laughing as I was still going faster than they could. And when some complained that I had been an Infantryman in the past so it was not fair, I pointed out that it was often years before they were even born that I got out, so that did not apply.

I simply during that time had learned how to push my body beyond what is normal. Yes, ruck marches hurt, but I simply learned to ignore that pain and keep going. Most who have never been infantry or long distance runners have likely ever experienced that. Or the need to simply ignore pain and keep going. We are closing where I work now, and for the last 2 weeks I have been lifting and moving a lot of heavy weights. As in moving 100 pound items and pulling weights on a pallet jack of almost a ton by hand. It sucks, I hurt so bad that this weekend I am going to spend much of it in bed recovering. Not sleeping, just relaxing my back and knees for next week. And I am the oldest male there at 57. The ones half my age just shake their head, and have no problem that I can not quite do as much as they do, but I more than pull my own weight.

 

Actually, it absolutely does.

Once again, have you ever actually served? What, do you actually mean that you believe that in a "multinational force", they just mix everybody up at random, so everybody serves with everybody?

No, that is not what it means. In most cases like this, they are in units of no more than Company size (around 100 people), each company from a different country.

So as a minimum, this was a "Battalion Plus" sized operation, with differing companies from 4 different countries.

They are not going to integrate units smaller than that, as there would be huge language barriers, as well as a complete lack of common tactics and doctrine.

And training for the Marines? Are you nuts, that is their freaking base? That makes about as much sense as grabbing 9 random MLB players from 9 different teams, then throwing them at an actual team, saying it was "training" for the team they were playing against. Or taking 5 musicians who had never worked together before from big "Top 40 International" bands, and just throwing them into the Europvision competition and their sound like anything but crap.

Obviously you have never served, and know little to nothing about the military or how it operates. Or you would not even try to claim such a thing.

 

That's harsh.

15km pack march (forced march, was a basic) with a 150min time to complete. I managed them in 120min with a 40kg pack weight with another 8kg of webbing weight. Also, doing marches to 'hell and back' 50-120km with similar weight. All done with two reconstructed knees, chronically bruised elbows, a partially reconstructed wrist and a partridge in a pear tree.
In my early days when I was 19-25 we had 5km runs for our physical fitness assessment. It had to be completed in 30min, very lenient for the chubby fellas. I always averaged 20min. Then the army started getting soft and 5km runs were ditched for 2.5km runs. To pass you had to get under 16min. I blitzed them in just over 8min. That was in PT gear. That was between the age of 25-29. Then the army got softer for the ******* pushing a desk. Beep tests. The concept escapes me but it was in a small area that was about 10-15m in length and you just ran from end to end to beat the beep. If you were good enough, you could pause for a few seconds to catch your breath while the beep caught up. It wasn't the same. That was between 29-31 years of age. All that and some I smiled and waved, while I challenged my men and every time looking at me like a freak. One fond experience that I had, was a battle PT session with my section and another from the same platoon. We ran around the bush for about 3km carrying a 50m cargo rope, about 1'1/4", nearing the end the other section commander suggested 'king of the ring', (last man standing). There were 18 of us. I was the 2nd tallest at 6'2" and 90kg, the biggest guy 6'6" and about 120kg, a very big boy. Whilst all were going at it with each other, the big boy was just throwing everyone out of the ring. Me, I was patiently waiting quietly in an unoccupied area of the ring, reserving my energy. Eventually, it was just me & big boy. I started making my move, backwards closer to the ring made by the cargo rope, estimating my height on the ground. I stood my ground. I was anticipating big boy would rush at me, I knew this because I was studying him earlier. He did rush me, and much to my delight as he got close enough I grabbed him first and began to bring him down with me as I fell to my back. As we were falling to the ground I had positioned my foot into his mid-section. As I hit the ground and the moment of his rush and the leverage of my foot and fall, launched him over my head and out of the ring. a lesson learnt to all the whipper snappers that day. Choose your opponents and ground, and brains over brawn are key. Work smart not hard was and still is my motto.

Keeping up with these young blokes wasn't the issue, it was what the state of my body would be in after another 4-5 years. I wasn't willing to trade that for more glory. I met my wife-to-be during that time and many lies became apparent. A lot of our mission was based on falsities. I became too aware of them and I started to question every operation. Why? I was beginning to become a liability to myself and my men. I pulled my head in, and sucked it up, as I had a duty of care for my men and myself to get us home safely. I had disengaged from what I loved doing
I needed to think of the future, my body over my career. I stepped down from my leadership role to become a civilian. I knew the government wouldn't look after me should I become physically wrecked as I was on that path. So I swallowed my pride and pulled up my big boy pants. I made the decision and called it quits on the green machine. 14 years, with no retreats, no surrenders or regrets. The best part of my life.

 

OK, for those in the US, that is roughly 9.5 miles in 2.5 hours.

However, to be in "Marine Infantry Standards", at least when I was in the standard was 5 miles in 50 minutes. A 10 minute break, then another 5 miles in 50 minutes. And we should be able to do around 25 miles (40k) in 8 hours at that pace (with a one hour break about 4 hours in for lunch), before settling in for the night after making our defensive positions and then repeating it the next day.

One of the most dreaded "Evaluations" to a Marine Infantry Unit was the MCRES. Which culminated in a 40 km - 25 mile forced march, with full combat load. Which every individual in the Battalion took, from Grunt and Admin to cooks, vehicle mechanics, and radio techs. 25 miles in under 7 hours, no more than 10% falling behind their own company. If more than 10% fails in that, the entire Battalion fails. Go to any Marine Infantry base, and you will often see units in various staged of training for that test. It incorporates a lot more than that, but that is actually a key thing looked at.

It must be remembered, that unlike most militaries in the world, the US Marine Corps is good old "Light Foot Infantry". There is no organic assets in the battalion (or Regiment) to move the Marines on anything other than boot power. The Army has helicopters and armored vehicles attached to the unit to provide their transportation. That is not the case in the Marines. In fact, an entire Division typically has 6 Regiments (3 Battalions in each). Yet, only a single company of tanks and amphibious armored carriers. And they might have attached to them a Helicopter unit that has about the same amount of support.

Unlike most military organizations, there is absolutely no "organic mobility assets" in a Marine Battalion. Some are attached for operations, but the Battalion does not "own" them. Unlike say Army units, that "own" their APCs and helicopters.

 

Back in the day, we were told the Australian infantry was of a similar standard in terms of skill and training that of the US Army Rangers. As we were cross-trained in weapons, comms, section positions & everyone was a basic field medic. Anyone could cover all weapons, use the radio and do each other's job. Everyone had their specialty and everyone was an all-rounder.

 

You can't win 'em all. I have no reason to judge it, as do you, as "humiliating," to be beaten by British Royal Marine Commandos, who I would presume to be very well trained, themselves. At the end of the day, the thing that gives us our advantage over every other military in the world, is our weaponry, which I assume was not really a factor, in this mock battle.

 

No, it absolutely does not, and I just explained why.

Already explained. Learn to read.

That is what I said.

That's what the article says. You just assume you are right about everything, and everyone else is lying.

 

I'll tell you exactly what happened to the military. It become a woke safe space

 

Does it make sense to trash the US military because of one training exercise?

Good luck to the Royal Marines if they actually had to wage war against the US.

 

your mischaracterizing criticisms.

If I criticize the military over something profoundly stupid they're doing I'm not trashing anything. I'm criticizing stupidity.

If you're too sensitive to accept any criticism and think that it's some sort of bullying work attack on you then maybe you shouldn't be here

 

Meh, I'll stick around and call out your whiny BS.

 

You're not though you're trying about criticism.

I know criticism is the worst thing for a snowflake but this is life

 

Re Viet Nam they certainly were; they had over 10 years recent unit experiences in jungle fighting in Malaysia, and there were 'tunnel rats' in the British Army in WW I, so the practice was revived by the Royal Engineer units there. I wouldn't have gone down in one of those tunnels for a million 1968 dollars.

 

And you believe anything written by somebody who is not an expert in how the military works? With absolutely no description at all of the size and composition of the units involved?

Believe what you want, that does not make it real.

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

Not their job.

 

It should be.
What is a defence force for, if not to defend the people of their country from foreign or domestic adversaries on a very large scale and when police forces of their countries are corrupted and compromised?

 

Which is why when I was station in El Paso, we often called our base "Fort Ignorance".