California vs. Florida: The surprising answer to which state handled COVID better

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Nov 27, 2023.

  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    "Per capita" deaths?
     
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  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    See #32
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Then they should have been more careful
     
  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, you have identified the problem, and I"m not challenging that point, but you merely assume nothing can be done about it.

    I don't believe that, and nothing you've posted convinces me of otherwise. I'm mindful of the realities, but, America is a resourceful place.

    If 50% of the population own 97% of the nation's wealth, which the Fed Reserve Wealth Distribution tables show us, then somewhere in that fact is a solution. I haven't figured it out, yet, but I'm optimistic Democrats will. Naturally, republicans will block us every step of the way, as they alway have, catering to their rich buddies.

    That's a bit of a cynical attitude towards Republicans, but, I think it's a fair sentiment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    And CA has far more crowded spaces/housing, owing to much more urban areas, offsetting that fact. And what is the percentage of blacks in TX getting covid, hmmm?
     
  6. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    fewer deaths, per capita.
     
  7. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Be careful not to turn 65 or older?
    I am absolutely sure you believe that
     
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  8. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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  9. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    You can't offset old age.
    But we are all sure you think that. lol

    Texas has 3 times the population of blacks per capita than California.
    I guess we know which state is the most racist now.
    What else ya got
     
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  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    A disparity in one area, yuor side, can be offset by a disparity in another area, my side.

    Sure it can, though I haven't crunched the numbers. Until then, the argument is on hold.
    Your last sentence alleging CA is racist, suggests that blacks are not allowed in CA.

    If you have evidence of that, post it, or retract your claim.

    You didn't answer the question, what percentage of TX blacks got covid?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  11. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Florida has about 16% black population compared to 5% for California. If you have a population that is less susceptible to Covid deaths for biological reasons you are going to have a lower death rate. What you “think” is irrelevant to biology and statistics.

    SMH.
     
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  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    [
    yes, but the question then becomes, does the increased number of crowded housing in CA over FLA offset the increase in blacks in FLA?

    The point is, though blacks have a higher incidence of Covid, so do people who live in poor neighborhoods with crowded spaces.

    I should think one offsets the other, such that the death rate is still a valid comparison, and this would also offset the increase in elderly per capita given that FLA's elderly per capita is only 6% higher than that of CA.

    I haven't crunched the number's, but I'll bet, given this fact, the OP's stats are still valid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You do realize death rates of Covid in urban areas are lower than in rural areas? I don’t think you are looking at facts as much as how you want things to be.

    There are states that didn’t even lock down that have lower Covid death rates than CA. It’s not as simple as CA did well because of its politics and restrictive policies. CA has some of the lowest usage of central air conditioning, and ventilation is a major factor in Covid rates. There are many factors. California has higher rates of regular exercise than FL. Exercise is a huge factor in infection and death rates of Covid. I know your public health entities didn’t tell you things like that, but that’s what research shows.
     
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  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Coming Soon:

     
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  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LoL ok let's play cognitive dissonance.

    Explain how CA always having a much lower death rate than FL for every single year in the last 25 years means they "did better" under Covid.

    Let's see the mental gymnastics. It is fascinating, after all.
     
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  16. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    In what imagination would being old and having the highest death rate and highest immune deficiency be a disparity?
    Oh, thats right. Its you. lol

    Tell me, do you just make up these alleged ideas all on your own out of thin air, or do you have to work at it?
    Wasn't it you that made the claim
    YOU bring blacks into the equation, and when you were educated on the numbers of California vs Texas, and cornered on the false premise of your own claim, your next jump is to suggest racism?
    This is all you got?
    Par for the course for your threads
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, reality is rarely as simple as you are portraying it.

    Initially, COVID-19 hit urban areas particularly hard. Cities with high population densities and international travel hubs, like New York City, experienced high infection and death rates early in the pandemic. This was partly due to the ease of virus transmission in densely populated areas. My original point.

    Over time, the pattern shifted in some regions, with rural areas experiencing higher death rates. This shift could be attributed to several factors, including limited healthcare resources in rural areas, lower vaccination rates, and potentially less adherence to public health measures such as mask-wearing and social distancing. Again, buttressing my point.

    Rural areas often have fewer healthcare resources, which can impact the treatment and outcomes for COVID-19 patients. This includes fewer hospitals, fewer intensive care units, and longer distances to healthcare facilities. Is that a feather in rural area's cap? doesn't sound like rural areas value hospital proximity that much, at least, that's what it appears to me. Off hand, appears to buttress my argument.

    In some regions, vaccination rates have been lower in rural areas compared to urban areas, which could lead to higher death rates from COVID-19 in those rural areas. Once again, buttressing my point.

    And, to be fair, it must be said, these trends can vary significantly by country and region, and they have evolved over the course of the pandemic. Data from different time periods can show different patterns. However, the above facts don't appear to mitigate my point.

    Well, if CA has

    1. More people exercising
    2. Lower use of central air, and ventilation is better

    Etc., that seems to be a feather in CA's cap, at least, it does, to me.

    But, the numbers are what they are, and if TX and FLA are are so great, why aren't the numbers better?

    Naturally, y'all will rationalize it every which way, I mean, truth hurts, I know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, let's flip it over. You tell me how FL doing worse in the last 25 years is 'better'. Because, better numbers, on the whole, tend to indicate better, so it seems to me the ball is your court, not mine.

    Let's see your mental gymnastics, which, according to you, should be fascinating.
     
  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're the one trying to equate this to covid somehow. Continue tap dancing.
     
  20. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yet another run from his own OP claims
    Who'd a thunk
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're not reading the text correctly. Now, pay close attention, and I will add more context so that it's more easily understood:

    I wrote that the disparity (FLA proportionality of elderly population compare to CA's elderly) would be offset by CA's higher instances of crowded spaces, which increase chances of getting covid, compared to FLA's.

    Now, I made that as a plausible factor to quell the notion that FL has a disadvantage. The point is, FL's disadvantage with the elderly is offset by CA's disadvantage with more urben, crowding, poor neighborhoods, etc.

    I suppose a thorough study and analysis could be done, but off hand, I'm not seeing a convincing argument for FL, given this fact.
    What are you talking about?
    You wrote:
    Texas has 3 times the population of blacks per capita than California.
    I guess we know which state is the most racist now.

    From your statement, the logical inference to draw would be that you are claiming CA is racist. Hence my reply.
    Someone brought it up, I forget who. I thought it was you.
    You wrote:
    Texas has 3 times the population of blacks per capita than California.
    I guess we know which state is the most racist now.

    You tell me what you meant. I'm not making a gawddamn thing up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not the one portraying the differences between the states you brought up in a simple manner. You are. You posted this.


    It’s far more complex than you outline in your OP. There are many factors that have nothing to do with conspiracy theories or vaccines that account for death rate disparities. I’ve mentioned a few. Some more differences between the states you mentioned are diet and altitude, both of which affect mortality rates of Covid. You wish to dismiss every biological factor except vaccination status (which of course is a factor).

    Stating facts about Covid isn’t rationalizing. Exercise and climate and race demographics don’t have anything to do with conspiracy theories. Unless you are saying CA is racist and agist because FL has more black and elderly people. :)

    Again, states that didn’t do any of the things you believe made CA “successful” have lower death rates. Not because of some conspiracy theories or vaccine hate.

    We should be focused on reforming our CDC, not trying to politicize state death rates. All states would have saved lives if we had a functioning public health sector.
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why not? If blue states have lower death rates than red, it should be looked into. It may be a post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy or not. It should be looked into. I" m just starting the conversation.
     
  24. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    California has 18,000,000 more people...lol

    Florida's 65+ population is 22% of the state's population. In California it's 15%.
     
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  25. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Looking into the reasons is great. As long as we accept biological science as a foundation, not voting habits.

    The problem is our public health sector isn’t interested in biological science either. They didn’t tell you diet and exercise and sleep habits can be as or more effective than vaccination in prevention of infection and prevention of hospitalization and death after infection.

    To me, that’s much more concerning that politicizing the issue. Politicizing the issue killed hundreds of thousands already. We should all—red, blue and non partisan—band together to reform public health bureaucracy in this country. We should demand science based public health recommendations that we didn’t get during COVID. We should demand honesty from public health officials.

    Most of all, since public health bureaucracies will likely never be science based or reform, we should all plan for how best to protect ourselves from things like Covid going forward. But based on science, not politics.

    Of course I’m well aware my position on basing policy on science is unpopular. :) People have been pointing that out to me since early 2020 when I started posting things like this April of 2020. Unfortunately, even after peer reviewed research on Covid and exercise came out showing decreased infection/death in those who exercise and better immune response as well to vaccination , the CDC never informed the public of these facts.


     

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