Can Anyone Here Answer Some "Red Storm Rising" Questions For Me?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Dayton3, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No I didn't.

    The article I provided a link too covers midair refueling. -> https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.cnas.org/documents/CNASReport-CarrierAirWing-151016.pdf

    To refuel a carrier base aircraft in midair you kneed an aircraft to do the refueling like a KA-6, KA-3 or a KS-3. All have been sent to the the boneyard out in the desert.

    The old KA-3 which is the largest carrier base bomber to ever operate from a carrier (A-3 Skywarrior /USAF adopted the Navy's A-3 and they became B-66 bombers) cold extend the range of a FA-18 E/F out to 1,800 nm. That's deep strike.

    Today guess how we refuel FA-18's in midair ? By other FA-18's. It takes 1/3 of the FA-18's to refuel in midair the other 2/3 of the FA-18's.

    The last dedicated Navy carrier base air tanker we had that could get the job done was the S-3 Viking.

    The S-3 Viking was an ASW aircraft, a bomber, EW and an air tanker. During the First Gulf War (Desert Storm) it was used as a deep strike bomber.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_S-3_Viking


    S-3 Armament
     
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  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The S-3s are underrated.
     
  3. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not after seeing videos of the S-3 being used as a bomber attacking ground targets.
     
  4. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The DF-21 has never even been tested in an anti-ship role, let alone actually shown it can hit a moving, ship sized target at range.

    Deep strike is the realm of stand off missiles in modern warfare.
     
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  5. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would have to look it up but if I remember correctly, deep strike air attack is 750 miles.

    The best deep strike attack aircraft the Navy or Marine Corps ever flew was the A-6 Intruder. It's replacement the A-12 Avenger was canceled with no replacement.

    The best deep strike attack bomber that the U.S. Air Force ever flew was the F-111 Ardvark. The Air Force never had a replacement on the drawing board. The F-15 E Strike Eagle tried to fill the void lacking the distance and payload of the F-111.

    I use to watch air force F-111's flying 50 feet above the ground during the 1970's in the Mojave Desert. Very impressive at 600 MPH.
     
  6. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    No, the best deep strike attack bomber the Air Force ever flew it is still flying: The B-2 Spirit
     
  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    In pure payload coupled with unrefueled range and of course penetration ability you would be correct. But its lack of reliability would count against it. A plane that can only fly one combat mission a day and only 20 exist is not going to be that great in sortie generation.
     
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  8. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Each sortie guarantees a destroyed hardened target in even the most heavily defended airspace and the one mission a day limit only applies if they aren’t operating from forward bases.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps but I would say "each sortie guarantees a destroyed hardened target".

    IIRC, the B-2 can't operate from forward bases because they must be kept in environmentally sealed hangars when not in use to protect the stealth properties of their surfaces.
     
  10. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    They absolutely can, at least forward from Missouri anyways.

    My cousin was ground crew for B-2’s and he deployed numerous times to Diego Garcia, Guam, etc.
     
  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    How long were they on the ground at Diego Garcia and Guam?
     
  12. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    That I don’t know.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The reason I asked is if it was just a brief refueling and perhaps rearming stop over I'm not certain that would be considered "forward basing".

    That said I do agree that the B-2A Spirit is one of the best strike weapons the U.S. has and its a shame that only 21 were built. In my opinion the Clinton admin. should've taken up Northrop-Grumman's offer of 25 more B-2s for a flat 570 million each back in the late 1990s. Would really come in handy in the next couple of years against North Korea.
     
  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will probably only take four or five to remove NK from the game. Most of the action will come from missiles and artillery.
     
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC for safety's sake against extremely high priority targets you tend to send more than one bomber.
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is why I said four or five.
     
  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot more than four or five critical targets in North Koreas nuclear program alone.
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is why I said most would be missiles and artillery.
     
  19. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    You only need B-2’s for the hardened ones. Anything else can get visits from JASSM’s and Tomahawks.
     
  20. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    A single B-2 standard conventional bomb load is roughly equivalent to FORTY Tomahawk cruise missiles.

    Though I don't know if that proves your point or mine.
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Neither
     
  22. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Against a hardened target, they can only carry a single MOP each.
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The B-2 is not an "attack bomber", it is a strategic bomber. Different aircraft, different mission.

    The only aircraft in our arsenal that matches that description today is the A-10. Hence the "A" in it's designation.

    The only other one was probably the F-117. Although it really should have been named the A-117, it was designated as F for political reasons.

    Oh, and nothing guarantees a "destroyed hardened target". Even if they had launched every B-2 and BUFF against Tora Bora, it would have made no difference.
     
  24. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The MOP didn't exist in 2002.
     
  25. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually they were.

    They had to do something with all of those 8" naval gun barrels and 8" howitzer barrels. They make excellent bunker busters.

    The 16" Iowa class gun barrels were really big bunker busters.

    Ever heard of the "Daisy Cutter" ? It wasn't a bunker buster but more like a smaller MOAB, a big air burst bomb that turned the jungles in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia into parking lots for Army and Marine helicopters when the battleship USS New Jersey wasn't on the gun line.


    [​IMG]
    Detonation of the last BLU-82

    Holey crap...the Daisy Cutter created an over pressure of 1,000 PSI.
     

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