Can I convince PF's resident no-planers that AAL77 hit the Pentagon - #3

Discussion in '9/11' started by cjnewson88, May 27, 2016.

  1. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    There is no conspiracy. Just in the two agencies,there may be hundreds who know all there is to know.

    Those who see some conspiracy, need occam's razor to shave with. :roflol:
     
  2. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    This is it. Braying about the lack of an arson investigation, or complaining that the investigations weren't adequate assumes that 9/11 truth have valid points. They don't. Their stories are just nuts.

    Why would rational people who saw the obvious need to investigate for the moronic just to sate a few internet cranks? It makes no sense.
     
  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, what about the manual though? Ah ok, you'll get to it when you get a chance. I understand. I don't blame you, it's better to think an anonymous internet jockey is "paranoid" than to assess the FACTS for yourself. Switch the topic to me when you have nothing to add. I didn't write the manual, it's in plain English .. for pilots and aircraft mechanics, such as yourself (as you claim), to familiarize yourself with. But it's really for airplane crash investigators, did you get that? Something obviously, you're not and know little about. I'm not either BTW, the manual is definitely not for me, but I can read English, very well. The procedures look straightforward and quite logical. So where's that page again? Oh wait, you'll get to it, sorry to rush you.
     
  4. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know, for 9/11 you have to cut corners because so much is OBVIOUS. It's such a waste of time investigating the OBVIOUS. I mean, the buildings OBVIOUSLY collapsed, so that's it, please go home, nothing to see here.

    Yeah investigations are only for moronic internet cranks. We don't need no investigations, we know they were CD'd, it was OBVIOUS, what a waste of time.
     
  5. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    Well that was infantile.



    And so was that. Your comprehension skills need work there old chap. If you can't understand a simple point, it is useless to try and relate reality to you.

    The CD belief system is irrational as it fails in logic, evidence and reason. Why do 9/11 truth push something so obviously stupid?
     
  6. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    Oh look, there are airplane parts on the Pentagon Lawn.
    Must have been a big Boeing crashed here, you can tell by the commercial airline colors painted on this bit of sheet metal.
    Where is the rest of the plane, Oh it got pulverized in to tiny little bits because it was going SOOO fast when it hit.
    and the big fire just burned up all the aluminum, so its all gone.
     
  7. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, it's the reasoning they applied. What they did was for the infantile to swallow, you know how that works, right? This guy knows how that works:

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels

    Yeah, I know CDs don't work, fire does a better job, everyone knows that. I mean look at all the CDs that failed.

    [video=youtube;f8VjFBPQm2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8VjFBPQm2k[/video]

    But on 9/11, fire did such a perfect job, 3 times in a row! Imagine that? Who knew?

    Absolutely, 9/11 liars know better.

    Ok back to the name calling and insults, it's what you do best.
     
  8. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    Thank you so much for posting the video, really makes a statement about creating total destruction of a skyscraper..
     
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for proving my points.
     
  10. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that you have any. It's more like you proved my points since you have no answer that supports your fallacious claims. If you did, you would readily show it rather than duck.

    You decided to divert the discussion to make it about me and completely ignored the facts I posted. But I understand it's your way of avoiding having to deal with the fact that you really know nothing about forensic airplane crash investigations despite your claim that your background somehow makes you better informed than I. You're just posting your personal opinions based on denial/ignorance of the facts. I doubt you ever read one word of the NTSB's Major Investigation Manual.

    But that's ok, the discussion is really not about you or I, it's about SOPs in any and every airplane crash investigation. Next time, try to support your opinions with something more than just your opinions, they are not credible because they have been proven to be uninformed.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You still don't understand the crash was no mystery to normal people.
     
  12. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    "normal people." Who makes any sort of claim to being "normal" what? I'm an individual who is different from all the other individuals.
    What is "normal" ? People who simply accept what they are told without question? People who refuse to analyze the available date for themselves?
    what?
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Whether I "understand" your personal opinion or not has nothing to do with the facts. Come back to earth if you can, changing the subject doesn't change the facts no matter how many times you try that silly tactic. "Normal people" (whatever that means to you personally) and what may or may not be mysterious to them (in your personal opinion) are not the subject of this discussion. It's strictly about forensic airplane crash investigations that were not conducted in full accordance with NTSB Major Investigation Manual specifications. Understanding what the topic of discussion is is not rocket science, if you have trouble keeping up, I suggest you take yourself out of the discussion, you are not contributing anything relevant to anything.

    If you can cite anything in the manual that you believe supports any of your claims that key portions of the manual's investigative procedural specifications can by bypassed (Appendix J for example), please point to the page(s) where you found that (note I did not read the manual from cover to cover, so I could be wrong). I will be more than happy to discuss what you find. If I'm wrong and portions of the manual's specification can be bypassed, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. If you can't do that then all you're doing is peddling a lot of worthless hot air and adding veiled insults in the process.
     
  14. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    No, you completely missed the point as usual. I was responding to this particular piece of silliness:

    "Yeah I know, for 9/11 you have to cut corners because so much is OBVIOUS. It's such a waste of time investigating the OBVIOUS. I mean, the buildings OBVIOUSLY collapsed, so that's it, please go home, nothing to see here."

    I hope that solves your recurring comprehension problem.

    That had nothing to do with my point. What is wrong with you? You seem to read in order to just supply a snark comment.
    Argument from incredulity, therefore garbage.

    Absolutely! Most truther tales are built on lies.

    Strawman. I'm merely observing the low levels of thinking I face. It's not my fault you guys aren't up to my level, but whatever, run off whinging to a mod if that's your thing.
     
  15. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    Lets try a bit of logic in this case,
    > CD jobs require precision to complete properly, failure to do precision, means failure to completely demolish the target structure.
    > so, the conditions of the fires ( etc.. ) on 9/11/2001 perfectly mimicked the conditions set up by a precision CD.

    do you see....... ?
     
  16. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    He's accommodating like that. He does it a lot with me and he doesn't even realise it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The following presents a false dichotomy and introduces Red Herrings.

    I'm still waiting for that 'logic' you mentioned.

    More than you can comprehend.
     
  17. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    so exactly how is it ( do you think ) that the conditions that is to completely mimic a controlled demolition in that the building was completely demolished, so how did it happen that the building just fell down so as to totally destroy said building when the only other times that its happened, were by CD?
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Bulletin; the investigation got turned over to the FBI; As Hoosier keeps pointing out to me and the forum, they knew the cause of the crashes so the FBI got to investigate terrorism.

    I believe that NTSB did in fact do some investigation given that it is provable they turned records over to the FBI.

    But as H keeps saying, the cause of the crash is well known.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Have you seen how buildings to be demolished are highly prepared?

    This video can help you understand.

    [video=youtube;XHcCbY2wY38]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHcCbY2wY38[/video]
     
  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I am fully aware that the NTSB failed to complete their investigation to their specification and prematurely turned the whole thing over to the FBI and therefore, there was no complete forensic airplane investigation of any of the alleged 4 airplane crashes. There is no known forensic investigation report from the FBI that might explain what the detailed findings were, if they actually investigated that is.

    No YOU believe YOU know the cause because it's what YOU were fed. Without a complete detailed forensic airplane crash investigation as specified in NSTB's manual, there is no known cause. Opinions are not a substitute for legitimate investigations. Terrorism is a very generic term. One could easily say that the real terrorists were elements within the US government. But again, the NTSB manual contains very specific procedures to ascertain, not only the cause of a crash but many other critical facts relative to an airplane crash.

    Exactly my point, "some" is far from adequate and violates NTSB specification standards.

    You can repeat it a thousand more times, his opinion and yours is irrelevant. What is relevant is that no legitimate forensic airplane crash investigation for any of the 4 alleged airplanes was ever conducted, probably for the only time in history since the NTSB started investigating airplane crashes. And for an event such as 9/11 no less.

    I understand you want to give the US government a pass. That's what virtually all OCT defenders do. I don't.
     
  21. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    You're omitting the fact that the towers were struck by fuel laden planes, and the collapses caused by said planes damaged other buildings and caused a further collapse.

    You're not really up to this, or you are, and you deliberately omit points in order to serve your specious claims. Either way, it is intellectually dishonest.
     
  22. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    This is exactly my point, only with a precision operation executed with great care, can there be total demolition of a building,
    so why is it that on 9/11/2001, there just happened to be the conditions for total destruction of 3 skyscrapers, just happened?
    its a deep mystery!
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    For the heck of it, trying to help you understand, ....

    Note that the north tower was hit by the airliner, wings tilted. I believe it, like the second hit on the south tower were both right wing highest.

    The slash in both buildings is clear in video.

    The fuselage punches through the sort of flimsy outside walls. Most of the weight is held by the core structure. Other skyscrapers are not built the same way.

    Naturally if you compare them to normal skyscrapers, things can seem strange. There are maybe two well documented engineering reports on this failure by two buildings.

    The airplane did more damage than well prepared explosions could do. Then there is the problem with building security. The fact it, to smuggle bombs up to the same stories, and also do so in the same angle as the two airplanes made upon collision with each building would mean the occupants of the buildings were sleeping.

    There simply was no way to haul up any explosives, much sufficient explosives to make your theory work.

    The evidence presented to back up your contention really is less than weak, it simply fails.

    Engineering studies showed precisely how and why the two collapsed.

    [video=youtube;vzInIjD6nKw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzInIjD6nKw[/video]
     
  24. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Holy cow, now you act like you know my motive.

    I can ask you what is your motive?

    Don't say it is the truth. For hundreds of eyewitness accounts, the video footage of all but the PA crash, along with the passengers the aircraft making phone calls before they were killed, to accept your story is a tall task.

    Some of us posting know a lot about aircraft. Some love conspiracies. I don't mind them if they are truthful. But so far, I find no truth to call the investigators that did this liars.

    While I am both familiar and easily use the NTSB data banks, and I understand aircraft crashes so well, some are human caused for a purpose.

    Some are human caused due to neglect.
    Some are human caused due to weather, and on and on

    But those crashes were by terrorists. The evidence is overwhelming.

    But some of you guys have fun with such theories. Enjoy your fun.

    Oh by the way, explain how or why the goverment would drop 3 large buildings at NYC plus slam a hole into the earth at Shanksville, PA area plus hit the Pentagon.

    You are claiming as I do that humans did all of it.

    But there is far too much video of the crashes in the populated areas.

    If you truly think you are correct, there are ways for you to use tools to open up the Feds so you can see what they have.

    Has Judicial watch taken a look at your theory?
     
  25. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    I've been asking that for eight years, and the responses are always vague, nebulous and hand waved away. There is no logical reason for such a Byzantine and insane plot as related by the movement.

    If they can't present a prima facie case to support their infantile memes, why should anyone take them seriously?
     

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