Can I convince PF's resident no-planers that AAL77 hit the Pentagon - #3

Discussion in '9/11' started by cjnewson88, May 27, 2016.

  1. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    We know the names of the terrorists. We have first hand accounts from the crew or passengers on the flights. We have the attempts to follow by the ATC system of FAA.

    But they think some people snuck into those buildings, all of them I suppose, with the plan to blow them up?

    Well the way they snuck in was by airplane. That works, can't be stopped easily and sends a heck of a message.
     
  2. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    There is no rationality behind their claims, and the misuse and abuse of logic by truthers is self evident. To believe the US government, Jews, Mossad, Aliens or Space Stations committed 9/11 lies in the realm of fantasy.
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You have seen a cat play with yarn?

    I bore fairly soon when posts are plainly not well thought out. But once in awhile i am obliged to smack some of these people down, but do so kindly with no malice at any of them.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Evaluate this.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/composite.html

    http://911review.com/articles/stjarna/eximpactdamage.html
    http://www.co.arlington.va.us/fire/edu/about/pdf/after_report.pdf
     
  5. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, that was irrelevant, mea culpa.

    Yes you can. I've been researching 9/11 for about 12 years now and still do so every day. By discussing various 9/11 issues in forums, I get to educate those who care and I get to learn things I didn't know before. Every little bit of information, true or false, increases my knowledge and my understanding of the event. New issues come up, such as the redacted 28 pages. It's not new but new in the MSM.

    Oh yeah, that too. How about you?

    The problem with all the above is that it has nothing to do with the fact that none of alleged 4 airline crashes were legitimately forensically investigated. There is no report that identifies each specific recovered airplane part to the designated airplanes, which would positively/physically identify them. This is standard procedure as described by Appendix J in the manual. It was not done, not even with the allegedly recovered RFDs. That is a clear coverup since evidence can be planted/contrived.

    But as an aside, of course the crashes were caused by terrorists, all of 9/11 was. The question is who are all the terrorists exactly. Well again, that still has nothing to do with Appendix J. Unless of course Appendix J was skipped due to terrorists (and I don't mean ones in airplanes).

    The above is also irrelevant but ...

    The FBI took over from NTSB and hid (ahem, classified) everything. The FBI also HID (not classified) 27 boxes of documents from Congress and the 9/11 Commission. If they hid documents from Congress and the 9/11 Commission from their PENTTBOM investigation and lied and told them they turned over everything, do you really believe they would let me take a peak at what they really have on 9/11?
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    What was there left of the airplanes to investigate?

    Do you really doubt they all crashed?

    Do you not believe the pentagon got hit by flight 77?

    It did not take me too long to find your evidence for you.

    If you see proof, how can you not believe your "lying eyes"? LOL Kidding on the eyes.

    Study this very carefully. It contains a lot of proof concerning the Pentagon. Matter of fact, I am not done looking it over.

    Enjoy the hunting.
    http://911review.com/articles/stjarna/eximpactdamage.html
     
  7. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    "What was there left of the airplanes to investigate?"

    you do realize that physical stuff can not really be made to just go poof and vanish
    its around someplace, + the fact that it takes a LOT of effort to completely pulverize anything.

    so no, not good enough, there was insufficient evidence to prove any one of the 4 alleged hijacked airliners was real.
     
  8. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    What is that supposed to mean? The official narrative claims parts were recovered. Appendix J of the manual describes recovered parts procedures during an investigation. Why are you asking me that question? Is this issue confusing to you?

    I have many doubts. The official story is a gross scam.

    Why should I believe it? On faith? Because they said so? Where are the parts' serial numbers matched to the logs for AA77? Where is the chain of custody for those parts? They claim the FDR was recovered, where is the match to the logs? How do I know all this wasn't planted and/or manufactured? This is why a forensic airplane crash investigation is conducted, to determine the cause of the crash AND for any other mitigating circumstance that is of interest. And given it's 9/11 we're talking about, everything is of interest, there are no exceptions, unless one wants to create all sorts of exceptions.

    Thanks I was looking for the matched parts, nothing there sorry to say. But thanks anyway.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Perhaps you think of yourself as the smartest person looking at this.

    Maybe not.... Can't say

    When the NTSB handed in all records to the FBI, it does not come close to hinting something is wrong. Suppose you saw the serial numbers. My guess is your move would be to call them fake numbers. It fits the MO as I see things.

    For your theory to be correct, you therefore have at least hundreds upon hundreds of corrupt people working for the FBI plus the FAA as well as at the NTSB.

    But you are aware of the vast net of corruption you see in DC.

    Frankly, I figured you would study the link I showed to you. That you would also take full advantage of the links inside that link.

    I went to two major sites just from that and may look at more.

    I am not doubtful of the vast honesty of all those fine citizens working for the Feds as you are.

    Put it this way, you laid your dollar on craps and crapped out.
     
  10. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    One of the tricks of the faction that tries to support the hijacked airliners story,
    is to claim that the airliners were all traveling So very fast when they crashed
    of course they were all totally destroyed so it would be very difficult to account
    for ALL of the aircraft, however ... physical stuff is never actually destroyed
    it can be pulverized but not totally destroyed. with that in mind, the wreckage
    shown in the news reports most certainly does not constitute sufficient evidence
    to prove an airliner crashed at any one of the 4 locations.
    there are missing jet engines, there are also things that because of apparently
    very sloppy work initially, nobody knew for sure how much of the airliners had been
    accounted for, and then surprise! a few years later, a piece of an airliner shows up
    between two buildings and it has a rope around it, and nobody questions whats up with the rope?
    really? This whole scene is total psychological warfare! We are being victimized by our own
    "public servants"
     
  11. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    PS. to show Love the protesters so much, here is concrete data provided by the NTSB on flight 77. :cool:

    http://www.ntsb.gov/about/Documents/AAL77_fdr.pdf

    As you see, the site is pdf. If you question what you see, it might help us to have specifics on what you think is not true.

    Here, check this site out.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/

     
  12. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    A jet airliner is not a steam locomotive nor rail road equipment.

    They are strong due to design, more than materials or thickness of materials might indicate.

    When they hit a building at 733 feet per second, that is a lot of kinetic energy to bleed down in such a tiny time space.

    What are we talking here?

    Body? At 733 feet per second, it turns into confetti. Ever try to get parts numbers off confetti?

    Here is a decent report

    There is much more so treat your self to some real thoughtful investigation.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.html#eyewitnesses
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is actually quite simple, I already described it in quite simple terms. It seems to me you insist on changing the topic. My level of intelligence is not the issue, neither is yours.

    It was already wrong the second that happened since the NTSB did not fulfill or were preventive from fulfilling their investigation. There's nothing right about that, at all, it's unprecedented. Aircraft crash investigations are the jurisdiction of the NTSB, not the FBI. The FBI's jurisdiction is criminal investigations, once the NTSB completes its investigation.

    What you're conjecturing has nothing to do with the issue, quit making it about me and inventing what I might or might nor do. That's known as a diversion and a red herring.

    What theory are you referring to? That the NTSB did not legitimately investigate or were not allowed to is not theoretical, it's a fact, it's not theory.

    I couldn't tell you how many, the quantity is irrelevant, the fact remains.

    Skipping the irrelevant ....

    Why don't you just cut to the chase, if you know that any of the parts were matched to the logs and you can produce a legitimate document that physically identifies just 1 significant part to the actual plane(s), especially the FDR, please produce it. I'd be very interested. If you can't and no one can then my point stands as fact.

    Skipping the irrelevant remainder.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all that but without having a definitive physical match of each of the recovered parts (which may have already been destroyed for all we know) to the logs, none of the above matters as proof that the parts belonged to the exact designated planes. There's nothing in your links that shows any of that, as required by Appendix J of the NTSB manual.
     
  15. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    More good stuff for the deniers.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.html#eyewitnesses
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Since I am a pilot, and for a long time, and know about serial numbers, what do you think should have serial numbers?

    I can think of a few things with SN. But in a major crash as flight 77, those sort of things would have been ground to bits by the pentagon. I believe that was a hell of a tough building. When I drove there, the only time, I did not try to evaluate the stone facing but it sure looked very sturdy.

    A very sturdy building can make mincemeat of an airplane at those speeds. Take a bullet and toss it at a house. It bounces f with no harm. But fired from a rifle, it will easily pass through.

    The aircraft was moving very fast. I hear of speeds over 300 mph but the top speed of that aircraft exceeds 525 mph I believe or close to that. The guy clearly was diving. That had to be a heck of a ride for the passengers. I believe they DNA all but 2 passengers and identified those. So, if you want to worry over serial numbers when they did ID the most of the passengers, and said manifesto had their names, plus those passengers vanished, I think you can rest happy that at last, the problem is solved for you. You should have spent more time seeking the passengers and ignoring parts.

    See, you did not so much as define what parts have SN on them.
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    What you should seek is proof of the passengers as outlined in my last post.

    They did match DNA to all passengers save two. A bit more study and you would have found that. Passengers can't be faked.

    If saw your list of missing SN, that may have helped.

    But since I know the DNA matches, why bother with metal when humans work very well.

    I am smiling as I simply solved and closed this case.
     
  18. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    There's a scenario that would explain that. Start watching this at the 44:20 time mark.

    Painful Deceptions. 911 analysis by Eric Hufschmid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=701IvmLCAs0


    Also, tell us what you think of this.

    Pilot Who Flew The Airplanes That Crashed on 9/11 Speaks Out!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXA-enq65ng


    edit
    -----------------

    I just notice this.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=458243&page=6&p=1066246089#post1066246089

    I should have checked my messages first.

    You don't seem to have watched that part of the video.


    This is from post #42.

    You seem to be trying to sway those viewers who haven't watched the video. The scenario put forth in the video accounts for the people. You seem to be playing games.


    You haven't explained why this is so.
     
  19. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Airplane parts, probably all of them. It has nothing to do with you or your background or me or my background. Stick to the facts. This guy is also a pilot and doesn't question me, he knows better than I do and so should you. Why on earth would you question me if you allegedly know the answer based on your background?

    http://physics911.net/georgenelson/

    All irrelevant, parts were recovered (as they claim), including the RFD, all have serial numbers. I didn't investigate 9/11 so I had nothing to do with the investigation. The NTSB manual, if you read it, does not say anything about seeking passengers and ignoring the airplane parts. They are both addressed in detail.

    I don't need to, all of them. If you don't know, you're lying about your background.
     
  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to be told by you what I should or should not do.

    It's not MY list, it's something that should have been done by the NTSB to positively identify recovered parts to aircraft. It is SOP.

    You only know that because that's what you were told.

    Human remains are not airplane parts and aren't ever used to identify the aircraft. Read the NTSB manual.

    It sounds like you solved and closed the case for yourself years ago. Unfortunately for the rest of us who know better, we don't have the required proof that should have been provided as per NTSB investigation specification. And as such, we only have to accept the government's story on faith, something you've done. I don't accept anything on faith, much less from a pathological liar.
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, there is no question what happen. No need to figure out what happened like a normal accident investigation. I know this is difficult for you.
     
  22. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Ok we're done, you obviously want to avoid the issue. It isn't about you, me or what you believe or don't believe happened or what you believe should or should not be investigated. I know this is a difficult (more like impossible) concept for YOU to understand or you're just pretending it is.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I am no crash investigator. The flight data recorders all have SN on them. As I proved to you, they read one of the two recorders.

    You do not get to tell important data like ID bodies is not relevant. As I told you, I solved your case by the ID process of the passengers, all named on the airline manifest.

    Look, you cling to your angst. I don't share it.

    American Airlines is satisfied. I sure don't understand why any poster is troubled over this.

    I thought perhaps you questioned things with SN on them, such as the so called black boxes. Actually they are orange, not black.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That's for sure, you never even read the NSTB airplane crash investigation manual.

    I know, that's my point. Where's the match to the logs?

    Once again as always, all irrelevant, where's the match of the serial numbers from the recovered parts to the logs as required by Appendix J of the manual? You're always trying to divert the subject. I never said any procedure in an investigation is not relevant, just the opposite, YOU did though by claiming there was no need to follow SOP because it was OBVIOUS to you.
     
  25. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Let's debunk those films right now.

    http://www.itnewsafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ff_blackboxes_f-350x222.jpg

    Read all since point by point it is debunked.

     

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