Can we restore Rule of Law without prosecuting Trump

I find the idea absurd.

But Biden isn't going to want to go there. It's understandable, Biden will have 20 years of repair he needs to cram into 2 years.

But if you are going to let a president get away with everything, you are rolling out a red carpet for the next psychopath that wants to become our dictator.

My take is that the failure to prosecute Nixon was why the Reagan nuts thought they could get away with the crap they pulled.

So, my cents, is that we won't prosecute Trump, and that takes us a giant step closer to the death of the republic and the end of representational government.

 

NO...................!

 

I think Biden has his hands full. But there is nothing stopping the judiciary and sdny to do their jobs.

 

Biden isn't going to have to go anywhere. The state of New York will do just fine.

 

The opposite is true. The concept of 'no man is above the law' a fundamental principle of American Democracy, will be spit if we don't hold those in power accountable.

SDNY will, however. They are building a case as we speak. But, they are not going for crimes committed during his presidency, they are going for crimes committed before he became president. In my view, there is no healing unless we hold him accountable for his crimes. He used the presidency as a shield, and now that shield is gone. The jig is up.

 

Don't bet the rent.

 

Sorry if I was unclear, but the idea of not prosecuting Trump, in Federal courts, is appalling to me.

Orange is the new orange.

 

Nixon's VP pardoned Nixon.... sure Trump will have his VP do the same

 

I doubt Trump could ever bring himself to quit.

 

he would just blame it on dems, Trump lives in his own reality

 

That might happen, but that won't help him when it comes to the state courts.

 

Yes indeedy!! Let's prosecute this devil incarnate AND his evil spawn with a level of malevolence that would make the Spanish
Inquisition cringe! But why stop there? When he dies we should publicly burn his evil remains so the people can dance around the pyre in an orgy of self-righteousness! In my 66 yrs of life I never seen this level of raw venality aimed at a single American citizen! I'll be ashamed for you, since obviously there's none to be had amongst the lot.

 

Far less absurd than your idea that the rule of law has reduced, and requires some sort of restoration.

 

It's not up to Biden. It will be up to the new Attorney General. Biden cannot and should not intervene. Because, if he does, the picture we would receive is of Presidents who break the law and then give each other a pass.

There is no way we can restore the rule of law if Trump is not prosecuted. If he resigns and obtains a pardon from Pence (which I believe likely), it will be up to state attorneys to save the country from the legal chaos.

 

So basically you are not aware of the law or that Trump has broken no laws. When Obama was president his violation of the Constitution was never a problem but Trump following law is. Fascinating.

 

He will forgive himself of any Federal crime before he leaves office. All we can hope for is the state of New York getting him.

 

If we have laws that permit him to forgive himself, then we really don't have any law at all.

 

Which brings me to a question I've been wanting to ask. Do you think Pence will participate in a transparent scam where he is made prez at the end of the term so Trump can be pardoned? It would be political suicide if he did.

My belief is Trump is trying to maintain the loyalty of The Following as potential leverage to insulate him from actions the federal or state government may take once Don loses the protection the presidency affords him.

 

What is all this stuff recently everything we have an election everybody starts wondering who we can throw in jail. Its not gonna happen. By the way don't kid yourself rule of law in America is for the poor or the powerless always has been.

 

That is the part in this presidential Trump drama that I'm waiting to see if it will happen. Should Pence agree to this (i.e. a pardon), that means he is kissing all chances of a presidential run in 2024 out the window. Pence has been a loyal lapdog, but rumors of his own personal aspirations never really died which makes many question what his endgame has been all along.

 

I'd much prefer that Trump try to pardon himself. I don't think it will happen, but I'd just like to see that get settled in the courts.

 

Definitely on tap for Constitutional Crisis.

 

First item: I'm surprised to see (based on the few responses, so far, in this thread) an indication of such popularity being accorded to the idea of Trump resigning. That just seems out of character, to me. It would be a tacit acknowledgement of losing-- for what pretext could he use to explain a last-minute dash out the door? More likely, I'd guess, that he pardons himself. Legally, that's something-- though reason argues for it being, "over the line--" that is not definitively prohibited.

Also, abdicating & getting his reprieve from Mike Pence, would certainly take some of the shine off of his iconoclastic image, which he's been polishing, it would seem, for continuing his public, subscription-ministry, once he's out of office.

As an aside, Seth Meyers did a very funny bit, recently, about Trump/MAGA merchandise, in response to those criticizing the selling of BLM T-shirts. In mentioning the panoply of items one could purchase, Seth came to the Trump - Pence dog collar, which he thought was, "a little too on the nose," then went into his version of how that conversation may have gone--
Pence: Mr. President, I'd really prefer it if we didn't put the dog collar on the website.
Trump: Oh I hear ya Mike, and I'll take it under consideration;
right after you fetch this ****IN' BALL!

But I digress. Second item: No matter how scrupulously, "hands-off," a President is with his Justice Department, there's no way that, in public opinion, his personally chosen Attorney General, O.K.ing the prosecution of the President's former opponent, is not going to be seen as reflecting the desires of the President.

Third item: I think it would be very worthwhile, for the purposes of this thread, esp. for those advocating the pursuit of federal charges, to speculate on what charges those might be. Don't get me wrong-- I am NO Trump apologist, by any means. But when many of what, presumably, would be the criminal charges against Trump, were brought up at his-- admittedly sham-- impeachment proceedings, I remember the point being stressed that the legal thresholds for conviction in a court of law were much greater than for what was required to impeach.

Put another way, there's what we know (or believe) Trump did, and there's what we can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, in court. And, since the element of intent played heavily in the determination, any case would be far from a slam-dunk. I'm just making sure the possibility gets considered, and that those arguing in favor are fine with the potential of Trump being found not guilty, and walking out a free man, absolved, probably to go play a round of golf with O.J.

 

I don't know if he's going to do it or not. But I don't see any other way he can avoid going to federal prison. Can you? You are right that it sounds contrary to his egotistic character. But, in my mind, I give it a 50-50 chance. I do hope he doesn't. Because that would mean he really pays for his crimes.

To me that's not a point of concern. He's the President. Taking responsibility is what Presidents are payed to do. I think, after 4 years of Trump, somehow we forgot this very basic fact.

I'll be happy to do more than speculate (read my sig!). The chart I have been keeping since his first year in office is at the bottom of this post.

That's the easy part. Mueller already prepared a case that would be easily won by any moderately competent prosecutor. Four cases of obstruction of justice, with all the elements necessary to convict: act, nexus and intent. Those cases alone would be enough to put him away for up to 80 years.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...imes-100-proven-in-the-mueller-report.556547/

But we know there is a loooot more. Even though the evidence is not publicly known, we know (from Cohen) that there is enough to put him away for many other crimes that are easy to prove, like bank fraud. And, of course, there is the fact that Trump has already been declared "unindicted co-conspirator" in the case for which Cohen is already doing time.

There is no way this guy would avoid prison unless he comes up with a Presidential Pardon scheme.

Anyway... here is the chart I promised you.



If you have any question, let me know. But first, please read my sig.