Capital Gains Tax

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by wgabrie, Mar 30, 2022.

  1. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    As far as the government is concerned you are no wealthier.
     
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  2. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Property tax is a different tax. Property tax just means you never really own property.
     
  3. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    You can't spend stock. It needs to be converted to cash.
     
  4. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, that is false. You are wealthier, you just haven't received reportable income.
     
  5. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, property tax means that somehow, someone, somewhere, found a willingness to know the fact that land value is publicly created, and the landowner has no valid moral right to it, only a limited legal one.
     
  6. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    What on earth makes you think being able to spend it makes the slightest difference to whether it adds to your wealth? All it means is that that added wealth is not liquid. So what? If the government delivers a truckload of gold bars to your house instead of increased land value created by public spending on desirable services and infrastructure, you can't spend the gold, either. Are you falsely, absurdly, and disingenuously claiming that the gold bars don't make you richer??
     
  7. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    That is an odd one, what theory are you using?

    In general, law makes value possible. You wouldn't spend a fortune growing corn if everyone could come take away what they wanted.

    This varies from country to country. In Switzerland your home gets inspected regularly. Fail inspection, and the clock starts ticking. If you don't fix it, you get the boot.The Swiss do not fool around.

    Capitalism is a cooperation between business and the government. Without regulation, it just doesn't work right. Which is one of the reasons libertarianism is just a silly fantasy.

    Goofy thread..
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not a capital gain until you sell it. Before then it is just a paper value. And if you want to tax the difference between beginning tax year value and end of year tax year value then that has to apply equally for losses wouldn't you agree?
     
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  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    It is an increase in wealth that overwhelmingly goes to the rich, and -- unlike workers' wages -- is not taxed, as I explained.
    Garbage. Wealth is wealth whether in the form of money or any other type of asset. Do you think if government delivers a truckload of gold bars to the doorstep of a rich parasite it is somehow "just a paper value" merely because it isn't money??
    I don't advocate wealth taxation, but certainly if you are going to tax something ad valorem, the tax has to depend on its value. Of course, in the case of property taxes, they adjust the mil rate to smooth revenue when prices fluctuate, so the tax is not a fixed percent of value.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We don't tax wealth in this country and have no means to do and it would require an amendment to the Constitution just as it did for the income tax. And if you don't invest and take advantage of capital gains that's your problem and your envy of those who do is not a reason to tax them even more.

    And we don't tax wealth at the federal level it would be unconstitutional.

    That is exactly what you are doing. We don't tax property at the federal level either again you'd have to pass a constitutional amendment to do so and that ain't gonna happen.

    And again

    If you want to tax the difference between beginning tax year value of a stock and end of year tax year value of a stock then that has to apply equally for losses wouldn't you agree?
     
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  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can't understand why there is any need to tax it before they sell it.
     
  12. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    That depends entirely on what it is. But if there is a good reason to tax it after selling it, there is almost certainly a good reason to tax it before.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And if I buy a stock for $100 and at the end of the year it is worth $110 and I pay a 20% effective rate then I owe $2 in tax. What happens next year if the value falls to back to $100 do I get a $2 credit? What if it falls to $50 do I get to write off the entire loss. I mean if the government is going to be my investing partner shouldn't they suffer the loss too?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Non-sequitur.
     
  15. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Many states have wealth taxes and all have property taxes.
    Wrong. The Constitution clearly states that a direct tax like a wealth tax would be apportioned among the states by population.
    "And if you don't invest and take advantage of slave deeds that's your problem."

    Any "argument" that would justify slavery is already known in advance to be fallacious, disingenuous and evil, with no further argumentation needed.

    A tax system designed to rob the productive for the unearned profit of rich, greedy, privileged parasites is a problem for everyone -- including, eventually, the rich, greedy, privileged parasites.
    Few acts a human being can commit are more purely and deeply evil than to accuse those who oppose injustice of being motivated by envy for those who profit by it.
    Refuted above.
    That is a bald falsehood.
    Refuted above.
    I don't.
    No. A negative tax for gambling stupidly?? I don't think so. You might as well reimburse people for their losing lottery tickets.
     
  16. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    You misspelled, "Too deep for me to follow."
     
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Taxing your uncrystallized gain does not make the government your investing partner.
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well yeah it does if you want part of my wealth every year and they can bear same risk as me.

    And if I buy a stock for $100 and at the end of the year it is worth $110 and I pay a 20% effective rate then I owe $2 in tax. What happens next year if the value falls to back to $100 do I get a $2 credit? What if it falls to $50 do I get to write off the entire loss.
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Because that was not what I was spelling,
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is your STATE and property taxes are an excise tax and not on the gain just on the value.

    You can't apportion by state anymore than they could the income tax which required an amendment.

    What on earth are you rambling about now this has nothing to do with slavery.

    AHHHH now I get it you are just jealous and envious of those who invest and take risk and make money because of it so you want to use the tax system to take it from them.

    They quell your envy and go out and make yourself some money like everyone else.

    Nope. Not on the federal level.

    That is exactly what you want to do tax wealth.

    Nope. You don't pay a federal real property tax and the states are not going to let the feds in on it.

    Then how and when are you going to tax the unrealized gain?

    Gambling winnings are not capital gains and you can write off your losses on any winnings.

    So if my investment if the value of my wealth goes down why can't I write that off and effective rate under your plan?
     
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  21. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Stock values can change from minute to minute. How do you tax that?
     
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  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  23. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. You are just talking nonsense.
    They aren't the ones TAKING the risk. You are. See how that works?
    As I informed you before: that would be subsidizing stupid gambling, like reimbursing people for their losing lottery tickets. Which part of that are you having trouble understanding?
     
  24. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess spelling was not the deficiency.
     
  25. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    STATES are IN the USA, proving you objectively wrong, as usual.
    No they aren't. Excise taxes are levied once, on sale. Some jurisdictions do levy an excise tax on property sales, but that is not the property tax, which is a tax on ownership, not sale.
    So the tax increases when the value does.
    You most certainly can, which might be why the Constitution explicitly allowed for it. The income tax only required an amendment because it was to be levied on property income as well as earned income, and was not going to be apportioned.
    Yes it does. Your "argument" was that institutionalized injustice (in this case of the tax system) is not a problem, only my not taking advantage of it. That is logically identical to justifying slavery in the same way -- and in fact, those who opposed the abolitionists used the exact same "argument" you used: "Just save up some money and buy some slaves of your own. Problem solved!"
    AHHHH, now I get it: you are aware that you are trying to rationalize and justify institutionalized evil, so you have decided that you had better make a fallacious, disingenuous, and despicable ad hominem attack on my character rather than address my arguments.
    I have made quite a lot of money, thank you, including capital gains. Now how about you quell your desperation to justify massive, systematic, institutionalized evil and address the facts, instead of heaping disgrace upon yourself by resorting to despicable ad hominem filth?
    <yawn> Your claim is still objectively false. The Constitution explicitly allows it, which proves your claim is false.

    I have noticed in other tax-related threads that when those who falsely claim the US Constitution does not permit wealth taxation are corrected, and it is pointed out to them that the Constitution explicitly allows wealth taxation apportioned among the states by population, they ignore the fact that they have been proved wrong, and continue to make the same proved-false claim, knowing that their claim has been proved false.
    No, I am only correcting your false claims about wealth taxation. I don't advocate taxing corporate profits, either; but when someone claims the profits tax is passed on to consumers, I correct that objectively false claim, too.
    But such a tax could be levied under the Constitution, as long as it was apportioned, which proves your claims are objectively false. You will find that happening a lot, as long as you presume to dispute with me.
    That is merely your opinion. In practice, they probably would not be able to stop it; and if (unlike some people with whom you might be intimately acquainted) they were honest, intelligent, and informed, they would not even want to.
    I don't propose to tax it; but it could presumably be taxed much as real property is taxed.
    But ONLY against winnings, proving you wrong.
    My plan does not involve taxing income at all, including capital gains, crystallized or otherwise. We are discussing a hypothetical scheme to tax uncrystallized gains. Under such a scheme, you couldn't get the government to pay for your speculative losses for the same reason gamblers can only write off losses against winnings, not against any other income, and can thus never, ever get an actual reimbursement of their losses.
     

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