CDC Reveals Hospitals Counted Heart Attacks As COVID-19 Deaths

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by camp_steveo, Oct 27, 2020.

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  1. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Can someone come up with a plausible scenario where someone’s death certificate would list WuFlu and suicide as the causes of death?
     
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    I found this:

    "I have heard this sentiment from fellow doctors across the United States and in many other countries. We are all asking: Where are all the patients with heart attacks and stroke? They are missing from our hospitals."
    THE NEW YORK TIMES, Where Have All the Heart Attacks Gone? By Harlan M. Krumholz, M.D.
    Published April 6, 2020, Updated May 14, 2020.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

    "Where Have All the Heart Attacks Gone?"
    I guess the answer is still blowing in the wind. ;-)
     
  3. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Someone with severe symptoms of Covid takes their own life.
     
  4. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Which would result in an increase of deaths from heart attack as those with severe heart problems refused to go to hospital for treatment in case they got the virus and then died at home
     
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  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    No, it means that heart attack and stroke deaths are being called WuFlu deaths for rather obvious reasons.
     
  6. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    No, that wouldn’t make logical sense.
    If you have a late stage cancer and are dying from it, if you shoot yourself your cause of death would be gunshot wound, not cancer.
    Similarly, if you have WuFlu, no matter how bad it is, if you off yourself then the death must be gunshot wound as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  7. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Millions of patients with significant COPD, right and left heart failure, severe valvular disease, CAD, neurologic disease, renal failure and combinations of the above die every year after a common respiratory illness followed by a death spiral into the grave. The fear porn addicts don't realize this is a normal sequence of events.
     
  8. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    The doctors said that patients with heart problems are not coming in. Perhaps you can provide a link to some numbers to your claim?
     
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  9. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This completely misrepresents (deliberately or through being statistically challenged?) the CDC data.

    The information comes from the death certificates of people who died FROM Covid-19. Death certificates report two things:

    (a) conditions caused by Covid-19 (Part I) - e.g. pneumonia, ARDS, sepsis, cardiac arrest
    (b) conditions contributing to death FROM Covid-19 (Part II) - e.g. diabetes, obesity, Alzheimers

    The CDC table counts all conditions listed in Part I and Part II.

    In all cases, the patient died FROM Covid-19.

    So, it is totally misleading to say that people "really died from" something else. Each condition was either caused by Covid-19 or contributed to death from Covid-19.

    In the case of pneumonia, say, this is not the "real cause of death". The real cause of death is Covid-19, which caused the pneumonia. The pneumonia may have led to sepsis too, at which point they died. They may also have been diabetic and obese, which contributed to their death by making them less able to fight it.

    All these conditions would be counted and added to the CDC comorbidity table.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  10. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They wouldn't. Obviously.

    ETA: They might, however, list "COVID-19 diagnosis" as a contributing cause of death if it was ascertained that the person killed themselves because they didn't want to burden their family with the medical bills.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  11. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    FFS. All she said was "we count them as covid deaths". YOU and yours are making that to be that she is saying that is wrong. She did NOT say that.

    You make something up out of thin air, and then claim everyone else needs to prove you wrong.
     
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  12. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  13. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Where did you see suicide+coronavirus on a death certificate?
     
  14. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Every hospital has money people whose job is to maximize the hospital income
     
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  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Not really. The vast majority of hospitals are non-profit, reducing incentives for revenue in excess of costs. Plus, the "money people" aren't the ones filling out the death certificates.
     
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  16. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's actually "Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events". The CDC theorizes - as it can only go by death certificates - that these are cases where someone was hospitalized with one of the above, contracted COVID-19 and died from Covid-19.
     
  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    So they all died of heart attacks and strokes at home, and no one has discovered the bodies? ;-)

    "What is striking is that many of the emergencies have disappeared. Heart attack and stroke teams, always poised to rush in and save lives, are mostly idle. This is not just at my hospital. My fellow cardiologists have shared with me that their cardiology consultations have shrunk, except those related to Covid-19. In an informal Twitter poll by @angioplastyorg, an online community of cardiologists, almost half of the respondents reported that they are seeing a 40 percent to 60 percent reduction in admissions for heart attacks; about 20 percent reported more than a 60 percent reduction.

    And this is not a phenomenon specific to the United States. Investigators from Spain reported a 40 percent reduction in emergency procedures for heart attacks during the last week of March compared with the period just before the pandemic hit."
    THE NEW YORK TIMES, Where Have All the Heart Attacks Gone? By Harlan M. Krumholz, M.D.
    Published April 6, 2020, Updated May 14, 2020.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html
     
  18. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    No, they died from heart attacks and were registered as deaths from heart attack. And still no numbers from you. Let me help you:'

    [​IMG]
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...the-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s1/
    Oh look, number of weekly deaths from heart disease and cancer and influenza and pneumonia has not changed from previous years

    Oh, have to laugh at your link dated at a time when there were only about 10,000 deaths in the whole of the US
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Scroll back. You have not asked me for numbers.

    "Also, times of stress increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes. Depression, anxiety and frustration, feelings that the pandemic might exacerbate, are all associated with a doubling or more of heart attack risks. Work and life stress, which also may be higher with the acute disruptions we’ve all been going through, can markedly increase the risk of a heart attack. Moreover, events like earthquakes or terrorist attacks or war, in which an entire society is exposed to a stressor, are risk factors for heart attacks. Finally, Covid-19 can actually affect the heart, which should be increasing the number of patients with heart problems."
    THE NEW YORK TIMES, Where Have All the Heart Attacks Gone? By Harlan M. Krumholz, M.D.
    Published April 6, 2020, Updated May 14, 2020.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

    So, Where did all the heart attacks go?
    Answer: Written off as C19 to fudge the dat=a and collect the subsidy.
     
  20. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    They did not go anywhere:

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Read the comorbidities report and technical explanations. Comorbidity data comes from death certificates.
    There are 7,092 deaths listed with Intentional and Unintentional injuries. That’s what I’m trying to figure out - how can trauma be listed along with a disease like WuFlu on the same death certificate?
     
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  22. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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  23. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    It looks like CDC is counting 1 death several times on some of their data. In comorbidity report they show WuFlu and other conditions.
    So, on deaths by causes reports, 1 death of combination of WuFlu and a heart attack will be listed twice - 1 as a heart attack and another as WuFlu.

    Would be nice to get a total physical death count, preferably by week, to compare totals to prior years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  24. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't say that. It says "Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events". There is also a list of codes. And it was explained in post 166
     
  25. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you should try comprehending your ancient link instead of reposting it all the time. And I've given you the actual deaths from heart disease, cancer, covid, flu & pneumonia. This thread has been debunked by the graph above
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020

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