China vs. Japan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Jango, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    http://www.economist.com/news/leade...and-japan-are-risingand-consequences-could-be

    I have been following the China/Japan-US conflict, especially since it intensified last year. I concur with what the Economist says. There is saber-rattling, but then there is 'territory disputes'. Naturally though, I hope that conflict can be avoided... but the way this problem keeps gathering steam, it seems as though the only way they're going to resolve this is through violence, as I don't see any side backing down this late in the game now.
     
  2. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how an article could be that slanted.

    Lets get real neither side are Angels

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

    Both countries have valid reasons to distrust and hate each other. But its another example of our foreign policy where we sign these (*)(*)(*)(*)ing treaties because its in our "best interests" and it might come back to bite us in the ass.
     
  3. Oldyoungin

    Oldyoungin Well-Known Member

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    Settle it with a dance off
     
  4. Defengar

    Defengar New Member

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    China won't attack Japan because they know doing so will bring us into the fight, and they know they sure as hell can't beat a US+Japanese, +any other country that joins (South Korea probably would, Taiwan, possibly Vietnam etc...) alliance. The only real ally china would have would be North Korea, which is pretty (*)(*)(*)(*)ty, considering NK has essentially no navy, and their power projection would only allow them to wage war on the Korean peninsula, while almost completely relying on China supplying them for everything. They would lose all economic power and momentum, and there would be no real point for them to do this unless they want to go back to isolationism like in the early 1900's(which they don't). Unless there is like... ungodly amount of oil off the coast of those islands, there is no point.

    Japan won't attack first because if they do, they know we might just skip out on helping them, especially if it is clearly them who has escalated hostilities. They won't risk that.
     
  5. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    I highly doubt China would let us borrow money if we attacked them ;)
     
  6. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    i highly doubt China would be able to loan us money if we attacked them.
     
  7. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Thanks to Bill Clinton China is making enough money now to afford a military that could take on the world someday.
     
  8. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Then we would be up (*)(*)(*)(*)s creek with no paddle.
     
  9. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    Hummm: China has wanted to fles their military muscle as an extension of their economic might and seeking entry into the big boys club. Japan neutered after WWII possibly feels that enough time has passed that they can flex their own muscles and possibly feel that they no longer need America's permission to protect their own interests. A weak MaO'Bama regime who shows no interest in leading in peace efforts or holding biligerants accountable could be creating a perfect storm for conflict, not to mention MaO'Bama's propensity of abbandoning friends in time of need.
     
  10. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    Good points. However, there is no up side to war. Russia and Iran also have an interest here as well. Russia has its own territorial claims that Japan occupies too. Iran has ties to North Korea as well as Russia. If this conflict happens, America's best interest is to stay out of it, unless we are directly attacked. This could be a potential boon for India's economic outlook.
     
  11. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    if China isn't there anymore, we don't have to borrow the money to pay the interest.
     
  12. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    We borrow more then "to pay the interest". We borrow now to stay afloat. And good luck with "China not being there anymore" you forget they can nuke the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of us as well and even if we survive a nuclear war good luck with the fallout. Our politicians and elites will chill out in their bunkers while millions die.
     
  13. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    Military Industrial interests are a greater long term concern than debt collection. China is playing a slow increase game, not a quick escalation. This dust up with Japan is a test balloon to see what others will do. If America is smart (not a chance with MaO'bama at the helm) we would play this close to the vest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Military Industrial interests are a greater long term concern than debt collection. China is playing a slow increase game, not a quick escalation. This dust up with Japan is a test balloon to see what others will do. If America is smart (not a chance with MaO'bama at the helm) we would play this close to the vest.
     
  14. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    no, the amount we borrow from them doesn't even cover the interest payments on what we've already borrowed...and lets not forget this is China using Chinese made nukes. the subcontractors could have used irradiated lead instead of plutonium for all they know...if the missiles aren't using iron oxide instead of aluminum oxide 'cause it was cheaper.
     
  15. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    People overrate China, but they should not be underestimated either. But it should be realized that they are only as far as they are because that traitor Bill (now where'd I put that cigar? Oh! there it is) Clinton gave them our military secrets. I'm sure Chairman MaO'Bama will fill in the blanks for them at the end of his disgraceful presidency.
     
  16. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    I think you underestimate China and overestimate us. Its usually of Neo-cons to think we are the bestest! While everyone else sucks.
     
  17. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    We are the best, and everyone else does suck. The only thing wrong with America are neo-communist progressive leftist losers who have forgotten what being an American is all about.
     
  18. skeptic-f

    skeptic-f New Member

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    Just an update on the whole island situation:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/china-and-japan-calming-tensions.20015003



    A senior envoy has handed China's leader a cordial letter from Japan's prime minister in the highest-level contact between the sides since tensions increased in September over an island dispute.

    The letter from Shinzo Abe to Xi Jinping did not contain any substantial overtures, but it sent wishes of good health, spoke of the two countries' "shared responsibility for peace and prosperity" in the region.

    It added that the meeting was a "valuable opportunity to share views".

    The meeting between Mr Xi and the envoy, senior lawmaker Natsuo Yamaguchi, appeared to reduce some of the intensity of the dispute, which has raised concerns over a possible armed conflict.

    Mr Xi told Mr Yamaguchi that China attached "great importance" to his visit, held in Beijing's Great Hall of the People following four months of rising friction that have included violent protests in China and the scrambling of fighter jets by both countries.

    Mr Yamaguchi said both men emphasised the need for discussion and calm.

    He said they discussed a future meeting in preparation for a possible summit between Mr Xi and Mr Abe, but gave no indication when that might happen.

    Tensions soared after Japan's government bought the uninhabited islands, known in Chinese as Diaoyu and Japanese as Senkaku, from their private Japanese owners in September.
     
  19. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    GI Joe is only a cartoon and an awful movie.. Get over it.
     
  20. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    I suppose you had to say something...
     
  21. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Yes, they certainly know how to exchange pleasantries, and the sort, but things have steadily intensified since September of last year. They've done this routine several times now, maybe not to this high of an extent, but words between the two governments have been exchanged. It is the chess piece moves in the real-world that is concerning. Neither side is backing down. To make matters worse, this is the definition of a real conflict. These two countries have legitimate reasons to want to hurt each other, as I suspect resentment from the past still lingers. When there were protests, the anarchy and violence and hatred was there to be seen. It was raw. This, like so many other critical world situations, is a powder-keg.
     
  22. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Undoubtedly, our military is the finest in the world. Though, I suspect you were talking about all aspects of America, which, of course, I simply cannot agree to. Like anywhere a person could direct their gaze, there is criticism abound here in our wonderful country. I love my country very much, but there is a lot wrong with it. And this isn't just coming from my personal perspective of right-and-wrong, this is also coming from what the media and historians and government figures alike perceive as right-and-wrong. The evidence of 'wrongness' is bountiful.
     
  23. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    There are so many dimensions to the China (PRC)-Japan conflict. Over the past few months, I have written extensively on this subject in addition to the hostilities in the South China Sea (SCS). In particular, I have written a research paper on quelling disputes in the SCS from a bilateral (US-PRC) perspective utilizing the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST). However, the situation in the East China Sea (ECS) between PRC and Japan is equally as important, and the US has a role in it, both as a country reliant upon the Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC) of the ECS, and in terms of continuing its fulfillment of the Security Treaty of 1951.
     
  24. Defengar

    Defengar New Member

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    We would say all debt to them is null and void, and since it would essentially be WW3, the credit limit and debt ceiling worries would be thrown out the window anyways.
     
  25. Defengar

    Defengar New Member

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    No.

    It is simply impossible for a single nation to have a fully world spanning totalitarian empire. Every nation that has tried, and every nation that ever will will run into the same insurmountable problems eventually.

    Weather, or to be more specific, the Russian winter, AKA, the destroyer of armies.
    Supply lines get to stretched and thin/logistics simply grow too insane.
    Forces grow to stretched.
    Not enough troops to draw on from home (not even china has unlimited cannon fodder).
    An equally or more powerful alliance forms between the attacked nations to counter.
    Disease.
    Grand leader dies or goes insane.
    Unexpected major defeat.
    Enemy exploits the fact they have a better navy.
    constant resistance or uprisings occur in previously conquered lands
    Someone high up and important goes over to the other side
    etc...

    Genghis Khan, Hitler, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, etc... They all failed because of a combination of these problems.
     

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