Circular Reasoning and Beliefs

The usage of "Circular Reasoning" comes up a lot from anti-Christians/Bible quite a bit. But, is this limited to just believers in "God?" As an example that atheists use to attack believers is to show that science proves them wrong with old universe-earth scientists interpretation of science observations and experiments. Here is an example from an article from "Got Questions." "A classic example is the evolutionist’s dating of fossils according to the rock strata they are found in, while at the same time dating the strata according to the “index fossils” they contain. Dating a rock based on the fossil it contains only works if it is assumed that evolution is true. As one paleontologist admitted, “For most biologists, the strongest reason for accepting the evolutionary hypothesis is their acceptance of some theory that entails it” (David G. Kitts, “Paleontology and Evolutionary Theory,” in Evolution, September 1974, p. 466)."
Christians also have their examples of circular reasoning. "Christians, too, sometimes resort to circular reasoning. The statement “I believe the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true” may make perfect sense to a believer—it is a faith-based statement—but in a logical argument it would be considered circular reasoning. The claim uses its claim to prove its claim. Skeptics and critics of Christianity often allege that Christians use circular reasoning to defend their biblical beliefs. Such criticisms are largely untrue; however, we should be careful to use valid reasoning methods in support of truth.

Another example of circular reasoning relates to God’s existence. Some Christians have argued that God exists because the Bible says God exists—and, since God wrote the Bible, it must be true. This argument is problematic from a purely logical standpoint since it bases belief in God’s existence on the Christian belief that the Bible comes from God."

"The Bible does assume the existence of God, and it does claim to be the truth (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 33:4). Those statements must be taken on faith, which should surprise no one. The Bible says faith is required. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, and faith is the foundation of the Christian life (Hebrews 11:6; Romans 1:17).

At the same time, there are many solid, logical arguments to build a plausible case for Christian belief. The existence of God can be deduced from the existence of creation (Psalm 19:1), and the veracity of the Bible through historical evidences (John 10:37–38). Circular reasoning is unnecessary. We can utilize a combination of biblical data, logical reasoning, philosophy, and historical and scientific evidence to present the best possible case regarding Christian teaching. Many Christian authors have written defenses of the faith, including C. S. Lewis, Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, Norman Geisler, and more."

So, groups like ICR spend their time proving that there was a Genesis Creation to show that faith is real and should be accepted as a real example of the existence of God. Why then do Atheists spend such exhausting efforts to prove groups like ICR wrong? Is it because they may be right and their belief in no God would become false? Therefore, they fear the people of God.

The article ends with this, "Ultimately, the Bible must be accepted by faith, and it is only the Word of God that has the power to change lives (John 17:17). Can a person be brought closer to the truth through logical reasoning? Yes. Can a person accept the truth of Christianity without faith? No."

To add to this, the Bible is a compilation of many writers, many books and letters. We think of the Bible as "a" testament of God. But, it's actually many individual testaments of the existence of God, his plan of salvation and his dealings with mankind. The Bible was written by approximately 40 men of diverse backgrounds over the course of about 1,500 years. All of them had separate relations with God. So, since there were 40 people of different backgrounds stating God lives, is it really circular reasoning to use 40 different examples of God's dealings with mankind just because they were all compiled into one book? After all, there are many separate scientific studies often compiled into one publication stating the same conclusions. Now, there are several scientific publicans with many studies in them. The Bible says that in the witness of two or more may the truth be known. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognizes this with The Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. The authors of this book are from a mainly from a different continent than the Bible writers. And, then they also have The Doctrine and Covenants of God's dealings with mankind in today's world. The Pearl of Great Price is another book as well. So, while most Christians are caught up in circular reasoning relying on pure faith, are the believers in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also caught up in the same circular reasoning? I say no. They do still have to mostly rely on "Faith." What do you say about all this including the atheist dilemma?

 

So, if only faith can bring you to Christianity, how can you determine that one should have faith? Are there any non-circular reasons to think faith is anything but a wild guess (or, perhaps more likely, an easily manipulated guess)? Wouldn't it make more sense to conclude that there isn't enough information, so we're not justified in making the judgement?

Just for clarity, what exactly is it you refer to as "the atheist dilemma"?

 

Circular reasoning fallacy is definitely not exclusive to theists. Anybody can make this error, atheists included, sure.

 

I use a triad of reasoning when speaking on this subject. Faith, Hope and Charity. Charity being the "pure love of Christ."
Faith is a principle of action and power. Whenever we work toward a worthy goal, we exercise faith. We show our hope for something that we cannot yet see. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And artist or sculpture does this on a regular basis. Painting by numbers is not a work of faith. No inventor works by empirical evidence. They have an idea and hope to find what they are looking for by exercising faith in themselves or others. Some people create and some discover. To wait for information? If humans in the past did that, we would still be without the wheel or fire.
Therefore, if you want to know if God lives, start with the desire to live a Christ-like life loving thy neighbor and loving the Lord thy God with all thine heart, mind and strength with faith not wavering. Feed the experiment instead of avoiding it or attacking it. If you go to a very poor third world country, you can tell which people have missionaries from faith based organizations and which people have not. They have hope, not despair. They are better fed and healthier. A missionary goes because of their love of Christ to do something good and give back for the blessings they have received because of their past and present faith in God. They hope to be able to make a difference and through their effort that they don't know if they will make a difference, they work and work and work to help others through their faith (verb). That's diametrically the opposite (atheist dilemma) of what you are believing in.
This doesn't mean that atheists don't do good things. But, it's not linked to faith in Christ either. Nor is it as effective and we see this. Are Christians perfect with their faith? Nope. But, I don't judge them when they make dumb errors. I do let them know the error of their ways of thinking though. That's because I'm called to teach the Gospel.

 

the only religion that is not faith based is agnostic.

 

Is it? How so? You are going on the hope that God or Man will not judge you if you stay still and unnoticed. That your lack of decision (verb) will show God or Man that you are a good person for not exercising faith in either direction will yield a good product. A lack of decision becomes your faith.

 

There is no faith involved what so ever.
There is no lack of decision either.
I find both sides unconvincing so I made the 'decision' to choose neither.

 

This avoids circular logic:
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. Moroni 10:3

 

The fact that you quoted a text from 1974 --more than 40 years ago -- indicates, among things, that you're desperate.

Science is self-correcting and constantly improving thanks to new technology, like technology today that didn't exist in 1974.

You also chose an author who admittedly doesn't understand the process of Evolution or how rocks are dated, in spite of the fact that he claims to be a paleontologist.

First, rocks are not dated to the fossils they contain. So he lied. The dating of rock strata was already in place decades before Darwin proposed his Theory of Natural Selection, from which Evolution emerged decades later.

The dating of rock strata was only as accurate as the existing technology, which in the early 1800s was limited to say the least.

More modern technology allowed them to make corrections to the basic frame-work of geologic dating, which would be an example of the "science is self-correcting" thing I mentioned earlier.

That would be amusing if it wasn't so sad.

He admits x-tian beliefs are based on circular reasoning them claims they don't apply because they are "untrue."

The fact that "faith is required" is a classic cop-out used by con artists.

The simple fact is the bible was written by men, for men, about men, so that only certain men might rule, god-things were invented by men to either explain a world they didn't understand or to frighten people into accepting certain politico-socio-systems.

The fact that your god-thing doesn't understand representative democracy or democracy in any form for that matter is telling indeed.

That's proof your god-thing was created by humans.

So he says, not understanding that the Hebrews didn't write most of the Psalms. The only Psalm that might have been written by the Hebrews is the one where each line begins with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet, so that there are as many lines in the Psalm as there are letters in the Hebrew alphabet.

While that might be impressive at first-glance to the non-starters, it is not for several reasons.

First, that was a common literary device used in many civilizations, including civilizations that pre-date the Hebrews.

But, most glaring is the fact that for nearly 2,000 years, two lines of the Psalm were missing -- and nobody knew it.

All those men who claimed they were connected to the god-thing, and filled with the Holy Flatulence, and guided by the god-thing, blah, blah, blah, and they missed two verses for 2,000 years.

It wasn't until they found that Psalm among the Dead Sea Scrolls that anyone knew those two lines were missing.

How sad is that?

And then, for 3,000 years, a number of texts were missing passages, had orthographic errors, the lines were divided wrong, or the words just plain misinterpreted, and yet none of those Heroes guided by the god-thing managed to figure it out.

And, John? John disagrees with Matthew, Mark and Luke on the day Jesus was supposedly crucified, so how can we possibly believe anything John says?

Um, did you not get the memo?

You are Gog.

Enjoy your fiery death.

 

Stuck in the middle no where to go...Like in a blinding snow storm not sure which way to go. Our a dark cavern with no light to lead you back to safety. Doomed at every turn. Sad. Just a flicker of faith would bring anyone out of the darkness and a pathway to the light of Christ which gives direction to eternal life. The light of Christ is our conscience. When there is little or no light, we can be deceived by darkness. Goodness is then just a matter of luck.

 

I have a compass, and I am not in the middle, agnostic is not a middle position, its a summary rejection of both sides of the argument

I see this as a source argument, your source is better than mine, and I disagree. Now if you can show me that my conscience is somehow defective compared to the conscience of your source, you may have grounds to argue the matter with me

 

Cougarbear: More insults because you can't defeat God. There's a story in the Book of Mormon that depicts a dream Lehi had where there was a great and spacious building where millions of people were in yelling, ridiculing and trying to bully the faithful on the path to the Tree of Life to get off that path and become miserable as they were.
The Psalms of David were written by David. End of that story.
You do know that ****r (Father of the Hebrews) came before Abraham. And, Abraham was not a Jew. Abraham came before Judah. Not sure what your point on this was other than just a need to rant.
OH WOW! Missing pages, lines and improper interpretations. Like I didn't know this. We have an Article of Faith in our Church that says "We believe in the Bible so far as it is translated correctly." The Bible contains testaments of God and the divinity of Jesus Christ. But, it is but one testament and as Jesus said, by two or more witnesses the truth is revealed. It's why the Lord provided another testament of Himself in The Book of Mormon. As the Lord testified to Ezekiel that there would be another book to be one in thine hand to testify of Him. The book of Judah and the book of Joseph through Ephraim. The Bible and Book of Mormon give these two witnesses. While each have truth, together they bring us the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It brought clarification on mistranslated scripture too. As did the Prophet Joseph Smith. Even missing scriptures.

 

So, when asked why you should have this belief, none of your justifications relate to whether the proposition is true? Call me old-fashioned, but I would like to believe true things, and refrain from believing false things. Now, if you'd be happy to believe a pleasant falsehood, we could go on to talk about whether religious charity is effective, whether an artist or inventor actually work with no good justification for beliefs (or if they can be said to work on belief at all), etc, but foremost, I'm surprised that adherence to truth didn't even feature in your response. Especially since the your first sentence indicates that this line of reasoning is your standard response or similar.

 

Faith precedes everything. Faith to build or faith to destroy. What's your pleasure? Ironically you are exercising faith to attempt to destroy the concept of the exercising of faith in regards to Christian salvation. You are set upon a path to a fruitless victory. You say that to believe in God is vain. When in fact to say there is no God is the more succinct vanity. You are undone by your own doing. Oh I know that life is proof of itself, so where then is Gods hand or proof of himself? We look to see, but not by the closing of our eyes, lest we do see and are beholden. Granted there is a measure of wisdom in practicality in that one avoids a fight out of the fear of dying. But in truth, the war is already begun. And we are already engaged by virtue of our living in mortality which will end in death to us all. So for what does one live if not a greater hope than dying. Do we lay about in wait and die more, and have death take us in repose, a prisoner forever. Can it rightly be said that eternal life is but a fable when all about us is dying and the continuance of life as a type and testimony to doctrine and concept. We establish values and appoint Judges for the trespass. So can we righty say there can be no ultimate Judge of our lives, or that it is a fable when we do the same. Are we the fable. Or are we just foolish when left long to our own devices. We act as Gods and say there can be no God. We are an absurdity. Surely we should beseech the heavens and lay prone to the mighty for mercy. And beg for a mere morsel of truth that our whole souls be invigorated and established. Faith plants the seed which bears up its fruit in testimony that it was not in vain. The heavens, the entire earth and everything on it, including all that we do is testimony to the Christian plan of salvation. There is no escaping that fact. What remains is whether or not it is to our appeal, and by the power of our free agencies to accept or reject the offer. But the choice of one is not to anothers condemnation. We all prove ourselves.

 

I'm not going to attack you faith or your beliefs. They are yours and you have every right to them. I get very frustrated, though, when those with faith and believe in Jesus Christ are adamantly against immigration. Or, more accurately, opposed to those who seek refuge. In following in the footsteps of Christ, they should welcome them in and help them - make a difference in their lives. The arguments against immigration is how it will negatively affect them - that they will end up having to pay for them. Not very Christlike from where I stand.

 

No, I'm stating facts.

Had you read your bible at least once in your life and actually understood what you read, you would see the evolution of theological thought.

Early on, what does the bastard Yahweh-thing do?

He murders people, like Onan, and then supposedly a whole lot of people with a "Flood" (snicker) which is an incorrect translation of the Sumerian-Akkadian loan-word because the people translating the texts aren't connected with any god-thing. Or he brings a plague of boils on people or kills all their herd animals.

He supposedly blessed people, too, with longevity, or good health, or riches.

Why?

Because Humans had not yet invented the concepts of Heaven or Hell, or a soul.

That's why.

Yahweh has to punish people in the here and now, right now, this minute, because once they die, Yahweh can't touch them. Dead people escape Yahweh's punishment, because no one has a soul.

Likewise, Yahweh has to reward people in the here and now, right now, this minute, because once they die, there's nothing he can do for them.

The Greeks knew what a brain was, but they had no idea that the brain was comprised of Millions of highly specialized biological cells. In fact, no one, not even Yahweh, would know the existence of biological cells until they were discovered in the year 1607 CE.

The Greeks did not, and could not know, that it is chemical interactions among those highly specialized brain cells that give rise to consciousness, thought, memory, dreams, personality, etc.

The only way they could explain it is by inventing the idea that the body is inhabited by a soul.

If those Greeks were alive today, and knew what we know now, they would do something x-tians lack the courage to do, and that is admit that they are wrong and apologize for having misled and deceived people for centuries.

The Greeks created Hell, too.

The specific passage in reference comes from an Akkadian text stating, "The domain of Nergal is down-under."

The Greeks were stupid in comparison to older civilizations. The Sumerians and Akkadians knew the Earth was a sphere, and that Earth orbited the Sun, as did all the planets, and a great many other things.

The Greeks held the false belief that Earth was flat and not only the center of the Solar System, but the Universe as well.

Today, we know how wrong they really were.

For those Greeks, there was no equator and no southern hemisphere, so how could something be "down-under," you know, like Australia, the land down-under as the song goes?

They could not translate the passage and reconcile it with their false belief system, so they erroneously translated it as "the domain of Nergal is under the Earth" hence, "underworld" which evolved into Hell.

About 25 years ago, archaeologists and anthropologists armed with facts and evidence confronted nay-sayers at a symposium.

Texts state that Sumerian and Akkadian kings, and apparently Elamite, Shushite and other kingdoms sent ships to Nergal's domain to get gold. It's described as a wild flowing river coming out a mountain range.

There's only one place in Africa that fits that description, and that is the River Zambezi in southern Africa.

The Greeks knew nothing about that. In fact, the Greeks knew next to nothing about sub-Saharan Africa.

Anyway, the nay-sayers are just like x-tians, tenaciously clinging to baseless false beliefs, but a compromise was struck and the official correct translation of "down-under" is now "netherworld."

If you're reading a text published after 1996 that uses the term "underworld," the credibility of the author is in question, so you should stop reading it, since you're just wasting your time.

That's how Hell came to be.

Greeks were renown as government administrators and worked in Egypt, the Levant, Mesopotamia, Media and Persia long before Philip of Macedonia did his thing.

Why do you think there's a Septuagint?

Greek culture has so heavily impacted, influenced and dominated Hebrew culture that most Hebrews spoke Greek and didn't even know how to speak Hebrew.

All the faith in the world won't make something that never existed or which was always untrue to exist or be true.

That's because we created gods.

In some cultures, it was Turtle who created the Heavens and the Earth.

It's totally unnecessary.

If you were as educated, informed, knowledgeable or learned as you would have us believe, then you should know that on the Day of Atonement, some guy put on robes, carved up a goat, waved the hacked up limbs of the goat around splaying blood everywhere to make pretty pictures, and you were cleansed of all sins.

And that was as Yahweh commanded, so there was no need for the Jesus-thing to die on a cross to save everyone, since some guy could do it, and different guys had been doing it for centuries before Jesus came around.

Wait, we should be correct here. Not "guys," rather "messiahs." An ordinary guy couldn't do it, but if you smeared oils on some ordinary guy's forehead, then he became "anointed," ie a messiah and he could do it.

 

I don't see much fight against immigration from Christians. There have always been laws with respect to immigration. Try to immigrate into other countries of the world including our neighbors. It's not so easy, is it! We just want people to immigrate through legal methods so not to cause major upheavals in our societies. Money doesn't grow on trees. If the country collapses because it can't support huge influx of immigrants, then the immigrants won't receive what they thought they would coming here.
We have a major problem with Covid19 and currently 10% of the illegal immigrants have it spreading it to others in the U.S. Yet, the citizens have to wear masks and separate. 30 million had to lose their jobs and income for a time there. So, there are people paying with their lives now catching Covid19 from these illegal immigrants.

 

Welfare/charity is the largest item on the U.S. Senate budget. Even larger than entitlements like social security or medicare. Tens of millions of immigrants and citizens in America subsist and thrive on American charity in spite of the fact that our nation is thirty trillion dollars in debt. So it's not that America doesn't care or care enough, but that we care too much and that our concern exceeds our means. And this doesn't take into consideration the immeasurable charity extended by our nations numberless religious and charitable organizations, not only in America but into the world. So anyone who thinks it un christlike to weigh our means against the want, should themselves sell all they have, give it to the poor, and follow Christ.

 

Fail. Rock strata were never dated based on radiocarbon dating.

Do let us know when you learn the difference between organic and inorganic.

Hint: Rocks are inorganic.

Which is subjective and not objective. When you die, your faith dies with you, since it is subjective and does not exist outside your own mind.

Do let us know when you understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity.

Yet that is exactly what x-tians did for more than 1,500 years.

The Imperial Roman Catholic Church is the oldest existing terrorist organization on Earth, having murdered more than 1 Billion people, including more than 8 Million women accused -- on faith alone -- of being, um, "witches."

10s of 1,000s were hideously tortured and murdered by x-tians based on Writs de Heretico Comburendo because -- on faith alone -- it was deemed they were subversive because they colored outside the lines.

In the US, prior to the 14th Amendment, which bound the States to the Constitution, many States had ecclesiastical courts and people and businesses were forced against their will to pay taxes to their church district whether they were members of that church or not and even if they were members of other sects. Failure to pay the church tax meant being haled before the ecclesiastical court and stripped of all property and assets to pay the tax, because that's what their "faith" said should be done.

Muslims never murdered as many people as x-tians did.

X-tians coerced people to convert under penalty of death. Muslims didn't. Romanians, Buglars, Germans, Jews, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Herzogovinans, Montengrins, Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Dalmations were all under Ottoman Rule, but none were forced to convert.

It is true that certain Bosnians living in certain specific places in Bosnia voluntarily converted to Islam. They're called Bosniacs, but there's a very logical reason why the did and it was similar to the reason why certain Albanians voluntarily did, but not all of them.

It was illegal under Islamic Shari'a Law to abuse a slave. The punishment was death. The last such execution took place in 1872 when an Albanian pasha was executed for abusing a slave (that was 2 years before the Tanzimat Reforms.)

How many x-tians were executed for abusing slaves?

None, because your "faith" didn't demand it. Hell, even the Poop-de-Doos had slaves on the Papal States and my ancestors were slaves for more than 600 years on a papal estate.

A slave that converted to Islam had to be freed under Shari'a Law. And, you had to give them a piece of your property to earn a living.

How many slaves who converted to christianity were freed? None. Your "faith" said they were descendants of Ham and so they were supposed to be slaves.

I don't find your faith impressive, but I do find it misguided and appalling.

And, the only reason you're not doing those things right now this very minute is because people like me have continually worked to strip you of all power so that you can never perpetrate your evil ever again.

Nothing unreal exists.

Um, I already explained that.

The evidence is clear: you will always use any power you have to lord over anyone who doesn't meet your standards and bring misery, destruction, property confiscation, imprisonment, torture, murder and wholesale slaughter on anyone who deviates even one iota from the way you think.

In short, you cannot be trusted. Ever.

There's no such thing as Satan. That would be part of the x-tian abuses I previously mentioned.

This is the true, accurate and correct translation:

Job 1:6 And he was the day and they are coming sons of the gods to station themselves on Yahweh and he is coming moreover the adversary in the midst of them (7) and he is saying Yahweh to the adversary from where you are coming and he is answering the adversary Yahweh and he is saying from to go to and fro of/in the earth and from to walk of/in her ( and he is saying Yahweh to the adversary you placed heart of you on servant of me Job that there is no like him in the earth man flawless and upright fearing of the gods and withdrawing from evil (9) and he is answering the adversary Yahweh and he is saying gratuitously he fears Job the gods.

Get it?

The Sumerian-Akkadian loan-word used in Codex Leningradis and Codex Aleppo is s-t-n, meaning adversary.

It is neither a proper noun nor the name of a person, which should be freaking obvious since the s-t-n is prefixed by the particle ha' meaning "the" so ha's-t-n, "the adversary."

By the way, they were friends. This person is the adversary to Job, not the murdering bastard Yahweh.

Too bad your "faith" doesn't let you see Truth.

Right. It only took your useless god-thing 100,000+ years to figure it out.

Of course, Poop Leo in the papal bull Humanus Genus condemns all Americans to Hell forever for having the gall to choose their leaders rather than consult with the Poop-de-Doos and let the Poops choose leaders for America.

Aren't you glad to know you're going to Hell?

I already have defeated him.

You're losing the battle and the war. It won't be too much longer and all there'll be is a handful of wannabe x-tians cowering in someone's basement.

He copied many of them from the Ugarits. That's how scholars were able to correct the many errors that crept into the Pslams over time.

My point was you don't understand the history, nor the evolution of theological thought, nor anything else because you rely on your misguided faith.

 

Ahhh...more ranting with little facts to base anything on. Muslims never killed anyone that didn't convert. LOL! Of course, they would not free slaves until they converted but they are such peaceful forward thinking people. LOL!
And, you attack the Catholic Church expecting me to be shocked! LOL! I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and we believe after John the Revelator was transliterated so he could walk the earth until the 2nd Coming of Christ, the world was thrusted into apostacy and why we call them the dark ages. We used to call the Catholic Church the Great and Abominable Church from the Book of Mormon. We don't go that far anymore but all those who fight against The True Gospel and True Church are part of the Great and Abominable Church including yourself. So, we don't align with them or other Churches either. We get along and let them know we are "Christians" because we take on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ as our personal savior. So, don't lump me with them. And, don't lump the blood and horror the Catholic Church caused as they did not follow Jesus Christ through the dark ages. They made their own Church and put off the true Gospel and ordinances of the priesthood.
But, I get a kick out of your defense of Muslims.

 

Everything I said was fact, which we all noted you could not refute.

In a single day, x-tians slaughtered more than 42,000 x-tian men, women and children for having a slightly differently belief system.

The military commander asked the local bishop what should be done with the innocents inside this particular French city.

The bishop replied, "Kill them all. God will known is own."

That got corrupted over time to, "Kill them all and let god sort it out."

They did not slaughter people en masse, like x-tians did.

More forward than x-tians.

We all note you cannot name an x-tian that was executed for abusing a slave.

Oh, sure, you belong to the church that spawns nutters who murder their spouses and children.

And, when they're not doing that, they're fornicating with pre-teen girls and they have their harems of teenage wives.

But, none of that matters, because you're Gog, so enjoy your fiery death.

 

seems the info on the matter still has many questionable aspects, starting with your claim and others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Béziers

 

This idea that our COVID problem has to do with immigration can only be described as evil.

Epidemiologists can track the tiny variations in viruses and thus tell where they came from. They have long stated that allmost ALL the COVID we have in the USA came from Europe. There are only two states on the West Coast where European variants haven't been the majority.

We are where we are because Americans have refused to defend against this disease with any kind of seriousness.

Beyond that, COVID has always been a world wide problem. Yet, the US embarked on an almost totally US-first approach. Even today, other countries have inadequate supplies of vaccines to defend against COVID, because of the patents and other issues relating to that America-first policy.

So with that in mind, people like YOU still blame immigrants!!!

Again, blaming it on immigrants is just plain disgusting.

 

None of which is true. Who murders their spouses and children? What are you mumbling now? No one fornicated with young girls nor were there any harems. And, what is Gog? and enjoy fiery death? You really lost it there. Yes, Muslims have in the past slaughtered masses of people who don't believe as they do.

 

None of which is true. Who murders their spouses and children? What are you mumbling now? No one fornicated with young girls nor were there any harems. And, what is Gog? and enjoy fiery death? You really lost it there. Yes, Muslims have in the past slaughtered masses of people who don't believe as they do.