Correlation between climate change, ground water theft and bush fires

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by m2catter, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    does any of you see a correlation between the increasingly deadly bush fires, climate change and the ground water theft?
    We all know that based on the conviction of our Federal Government there is no correlation, and there is no climate change as such, however people start asking questions and are finally waking up....
    And could it mean the end of the Liberals/Nationals reign?
    What is your take?
    Reg.
     
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Nihilists like to watch things burn.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People are losing their homes, people are dying, people are needing to leave their homes, people are traumatised. This is no joke.
     
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  4. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    That was not a joke. It was a fact.
     
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My daughter told me today that either all Australian firefighters or the ones who fight these kind of fires and sometimes die are volunteers. Is this true?

    Michael Mann is in Australia

    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...dangerous-climate-change-is-here-with-you-now

    and lastly I was listening to someone on a news program in Australia (probably before this disaster) He was going on about how this would not be done and this would not be done and money here and there. Basically his argument was that things would not happen because they were needed to continue as we are going. I though OMG he is living in fantasy land. Do what he says and there will be no people doing what he says. We never get this in the UK. It is considered too damn stupid. The Climate emergency is real.....mind you now Johnson is in who knows how intellectually the UK may degrade itself. Why is what I am not sure of. We know Trump does believe in it - can't remember exactly what it was but some of the things he has said has made this very clear.....so why do those in charge prefer the destruction of the planet and pretty much all of the people in it to doing what is necessary.

    Apparently the Head of the UN got Greta to speak because he knew exactly the way she would speak and it went right along with how he is feeling. I think also Mark Carney now has a job something to do with this. A couple of days ago he was warning that people should only invest in fossil fuel, coal if there was an unusual reason and warned them that it was very likely that they would become worthless. It is time for the world to get off its ass and save itself for us and further generations.
     
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  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am hoping I misjudged you because of your position on somethings. You are not a climate denier?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Climate change happens and nihilists like to watch things burn in the real world.
    Reality is not a joke.
     
  8. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    May I ask how old you are? You don't have to answer but I am 55. I started reading newspapers and watching news since I was 10. This doom and gloom has been reported all my conscious life and none of it has come to pass. Why do you suppose that is?
     
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  9. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    When you got total A-holes like Tom Selleck (lead role in Blue Bloods), breaking the law and hiring water trucks to over supply his mansion while everybody else goes without, that's no joke.
     
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  10. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Alexa
    for posting this link, very interesting, and thanks for your thoughts on this subject.
    See, our problems are not new, thinking back to the 90'ties and I still have J.Howards voice in my head, that terrible climate change denier, who wouldn't use his very long stint of 10.5 years in order to make us more sustainable.
    All these years lost, Gina R. is now the wealthiest person in our country, but at the end we as a nation have lost so much more compared to her gains.
    25 years after Howard, and absolutely nothing has changed. We still dig holes and sell the dirt, our big mining companies still receive ground water for next to zero, and also the Adani mine (coal) is justified/excused through the creation of jobs.
    Comes the next election, the scare mongering right helped by Murdoch will again create the scenario that under Labor/Greens we will come to a standstill. I sometimes wonder when people wake up. However I am aware that Labor is also not turning the tide, as they also back Adani.
    But now we have a big wake up call, these fires won't be forgotten easily, I hope....
    Reg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  11. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    Do you know how to prevent fires? Remove the fuel that a fire needs. Does that make any sense to you?
     
  12. william kurps

    william kurps Well-Known Member

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    Michael Mann actually said this?

    I am a climate scientist on holiday in the Blue Mountains, watching climate change in action


    Its called local weather..He is still being a propaganda tool, huh?

    So what do you suggest we do, for the world in you words,


    It is time for the world to get off its ass and save itself for us and further generations.



    What can we do?
     
  13. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Wherever (geographical spoken) you look at weather, it is local, however looking at the weather on a whole, it becomes climate, and with the very noticeable changes in weather and temperatures, it becomes climate change.
    What we can do? Stop pretending its not happening and start to act!!!
    Reg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  14. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Most firefighters in rural areas and even in the outer suburbs of large Australian cities are volunteers. Metropolitan firefighters are all paid professionals. Outer suburban areas and higher population rural areas will usually have a few full time professionals to run the station, but the bulk of the crews will be volunteers. In many more sparsely populated areas the crews are all volunteer. In my home state the Country Fire Authority has 59,000 volunteers and 1800 full time personnel. They also do a lot of rescue work, disaster work etc. My neice's fiancee was out fighting fires last week. he is a volunteer.

    And yes, they are often the ones who die. Some examples from my home state. Ten volunteers died fighting a grass fire in 1943. On 'Ash Wednesday' 1983 75 people died in fires in SA & Victoria. Thirteen of those were CFA volunteers who died in a single incident. They died not far from where a mate of mine lived (he lost his house) when their trucks were surrounded and overrun by fire. In 1998 a 5 man crew died under similar circumstances. Just last week a volunteer died when a tornado caused by the fire flipped the 10 ton truck he was in. Dozens more have died over the past century.

    It is a very dangerous thing to do.
     
  15. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No, he is just well informed. You might want to read the statement below. I have included the names & titles of those who signed the statement. They have collectively been involved in fighting fires in Australia for close to 50 years and as a group their understanding of the changing nature of fire conditions in Australia is unmatched.

    BTW, I don't honestly expect you to accept any of this, but others might find it informative.

    https://emergencyleadersforclimatea...MIk--s_v_m5gIVWwwrCh2ptAk2EAAYASAAEgKcc_D_BwE
     
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  16. william kurps

    william kurps Well-Known Member

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    Well that was not an informative letter

    NASA CO2 is showing CO2 coming from deforestation also, didnt anyone inform these climate experts

    download (50).jpeg
     
  17. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    You ignored it as expected. There was never any way you were going to pay attention to several dozen experts on fire in Australia on the subject of fire in Australia. Still useful for people to see how quickly you reject any information you don't want to believe.
     
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  18. william kurps

    william kurps Well-Known Member

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    What does local forest fires have anything to do with AGW ? Plus 1/4 of the state of Wisconsin almost burned down in the 1871, Forrest fires are nothing new.



    The Peshtigo fire was a very large forest fire that took place on October 8, 1871, in northeastern Wisconsin, including much of the Door Peninsula, and adjacent parts of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The largest community in the affected area was Peshtigo, Wisconsin. Wikipedia
    Date: October 8, 1871
    Location: Peshtigo, WI
    Fatalities: 1,500–2,500 (estimated)
    Cause: Small fires whipped up by high winds in dry conditions
    City: Peshtigo
    Burned area: 1,200,000 acres (490,000 ha)
     
  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No one who knows anything about what is happening here could describe the burning of over 5 million hectares in every state in Australia as 'local forest fires', so I think we can safely assume you don't know what you are talking about. Also safe to assume you haven't read the information provided by the experts who do know what they are talking about....not that you would believe it if you had.

    That you can so glibly dismiss the views of several dozen people who have dedicated their lives to fighting fires in Australia is a monument to the power of ignorance. I guess if you build the wall high enough & thick enough no amount of expert analysis will make a difference.

    Thanks for offering a fine example of the closed mind at work. Useful for those who care to pay attention.
     
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  20. william kurps

    william kurps Well-Known Member

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    The firemen are just parroting, once again they say nothing but deforestation in the southern hemisphere, only fossil fuel bad and act like narcissist.
     
  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was really weird listening to that man talking as if saving the planet was an option but continuing to pursue present actions to make the most money was a definite. I know that for a while the BBC were interviewing climate deniers - the idea supposed to be to hear both sides of the story but then people just started going bananas about this - no Joe Blogs from right what does not give an equal account to almost every scientist in the world. I can see that if your people are being fed this ...it might be sort of normal to think it cannot be anything that important. People might thing their Government or news teams would not be manipulating them to their deaths and yet that is exactly what is happening. It is wrong to feed people such wrong information and as most people do not have time to do proper study which is available to everyone with the net then they may not know. In Australia 'Tell the Truth' needs a bigger loudhailer than in the UK though here it very much also needs one. We are the best in the G20. The Previous Government admitted we were in an emergency and promised to get things to zero by 2050 - two problems here. One 2050 is known to be too late. It needs to be 2035 latest and secondly forecasting from where the UK is, it will not be at net zero till 2099.

    I saw Mann in a video last night from Australia talking in Australia about what is going on. He was asked if this was the 'new normal' for Australia. He said no, he wished it was but what will happen is that things will continue to get worse.

    I do hope this is enough for your people to understand nothing is worth anything when you are dead and the most important things for everyone now is sorting out the planet. Each year not worked on for that - and Australia is increasing rather than decreasing emissions but every year wasted now means more people, animals species, plant species insects etc dead and more of hell for any survivors.

    So, thinking of you but and especially because we are all in this together, hoping these bush fires at least have the positive of getting the message across.
     
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  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This video of a climate scientist taking on Australian deniers is about 8 years old. That being said it might help some deniers here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This goes with what I was saying earlier about being shocked at the way one of your newscasters spoke about the Climate Emergency. Tony Abbot was asked to speak to an Israeli station. Seems this was just about concern from the people of Israel for the people of Australia...but another... this time an ex PM instead of using the situation Australians are experiencing to try and push for closer world wide work to get us safe, moaned about all the climate protesters. Israelis were apparently angry that their station had put on someone with such 'extremist views'.

    https://www.theguardian.com/austral...io-the-world-is-in-the-grip-of-a-climate-cult

    I see there is an area where my thinking is at one with the Israelis. I appreciate that because you live there and are used to this that to you it is ordinary but it would be thought extremist in the UK in just the same way as it is in Israel and that is because the scientists know what they are talking about and it is a climate emergency. We either meet it and face it or are destroyed by it.
     
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  24. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    I am observing this as well,
    people world wide are getting ahead of their governments, if we want to change things, we have to do it ourselves. Abbott was and still is a clown, ill informed, ill believed. His best mate rots in prison because he is a pedophile, Abbotts own daughter is gay but he is a devoted Christian and won't accept gay people. How sick and retarded must someones mind be?
    As Abbott was a brainchild of Howard, I am not surprised about the rubbish leaving his mouth when it comes to climate change. But people have a choice, don't vote these intellectual retards in.....
    I watched the news yesterday, did you know that the right wing chancellor Kurz of Austria is getting together with the Greens? Have the Europeans more brain than us?
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...ens-sebastian-kurz-returned-to-power/11839168
    Reg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  25. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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