Debate: Israel – victim or aggressor?

Its obvious that some of our members are ignorant of our radicals and domestic terrorists mission statements! Ha ha~ Some of the acts committed were truly terrorist in nature and some of the radicals had crime committed on them in the form of Gestapo like federal goons murdering and denying them their civil and other rights. Waco and ruby ridge was a good example of federal goons attacking civilians and people that wanted to do their own thing. Be aware I am not defending Koresh and the Branch Davidians alleged crimes against children, I am defending the their right to worship as they wish and their right to stockpiling weapons food whatever they wanted to. The real reason they were attacked was that the feds feared and loathed Koresh. How dare he thumb his nose at their authority!!!

As far as the Klan burning JC in effigy that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They light a cross to ask for Jesus approval for what they (erroneously) think is a rightful agenda. I might add that there are as many Klan factions (all with different bylaws) as there are southern states. Some are as harmless as the local elks club and others are the most raciest and dumbly dangerous people I have ever met. Blanket statements are for nothing but to show the ignorance of the people that use them. McVeigh was warped, twisted insane and angry because of the Ruby ridge atrocity where federal goons blew the brains out of a mother while she was holding her baby. I too am beyond angry with that ugly troll of a woman that approved of lethal use of force, but would not have bombed innocent for that or any other reason.

reva

 

I think you will find that using logic and reasoning with the usual suspects is a waste of time. Israel is a sovereign state and has been for decades. Palestine has NEVER ever NEVER been a nation*. Its a geographical area much like Appalachia is in the USA. At one time TN was part of NC, in that respect I as a Tennessean have more of a right to declare Appalachia a Nation*area than the Palestinians have declaring Palestine a nation. The reason being that this area really was a state at one time.

*..(its a geographical area)

If anyone is really want to know the truth about Palestine and the confusing reasons it has NEVER been a nation here are a couple of fine sources;

The True History of Palestine: The Nation-State Fallacy
www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/13-468.aspx
5 posts - 4 authors - Oct 31, 2005
Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed by Arab ... was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964.

There is no such thing as 'Palestine' nor 'Palestinian people ...
mytorah.wordpress.com/.../there-is-no-such-thing-as-palestine-nor-pa...
Apr 14, 2011 – There has never been a country called 'Palestine' and there is no such thing .... 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

http://mytorah.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/there-is-no-such-thing-as-palestine-nor-palestinian-people/


NEVER AGAIN

reva

 

Do you believe a people have a right to self-determination? Yes or no? Ethnic identity is not a requirement for nation building. Most of Israel's population was foreign, so your argument above is contradictory, since ti would also nullify Israel's statehood if accepted.

The Palestinians have the right to create a free and independent Palestine both legally and morally. You should know that:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

 

Unilateral? Israel's creation was in keeping with the legally valid United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine.

 

When did I say that?

Yeah, so as I said, you didnt refute anything I said.

Sighting riots is kind of dumb, since one could go back to this:
The first wave of modern Jewish migration to Ottoman-ruled Palestine, known as the First Aliyah, began in 1881, as Jews fled pogroms in Eastern Europe.[58] Although the Zionist movement already existed in practice, Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl is credited with founding political Zionism,[59] a movement which sought to establish a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, by elevating the Jewish Question to the international plane.[60] In 1896, Herzl published Der Judenstaat (The State of the Jews), offering his vision of a future Jewish state; the following year he presided over the first World Zionist Congress.[61]

The Second Aliyah (1904–14), began after the Kishinev pogrom; some 40,000 Jews settled in Palestine, although nearly half of them later left.[58] Both the first and second waves of migrants were mainly Orthodox Jews,[62] although the Second Aliyah included socialist groups who established the kibbutz movement.[63] During World War I, British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour sent a letter that stated:[64]

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."[65]

The Jewish Legion, a group primarily of Zionist volunteers, assisted in the British conquest of Palestine in 1917. Arab opposition to British rule and Jewish immigration led to the 1920 Palestine riots and the formation of a Jewish militia known as the Haganah (meaning "The Defense" in Hebrew), from which the Irgun and Lehi, or Stern Gang, paramilitary groups later split off.[66] In 1922, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate over Palestine under terms similar to the Balfour Declaration.[67] The population of the area at this time was predominantly Arab and Muslim, with Jews accounting for about 11% of the population.[68]

The Third (1919–1923) and Fourth Aliyahs (1924–1929) brought an additional 100,000 Jews to Palestine.[58]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
As you can see, Palestinians didn't just start rioting all of a sudden. They were being swamped by immigrants under foreign occupation. I dont condone their violence, but as I say there are serious grounds here to say the Palestinians' rights were being infringed upon.

 

The Arabs rejected resolution 181; the resolution specifically called for the creation of a Jewish and Arab state. Thus, Israel's unilateral declaration of independence violated said resolution.

You may find the following link useful:

http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/151896-un-general-assembly-resolution-181-a.html

 

There have ALWAYS been more Arabs (Now Known as Palestinians) in Jordan/Trans Jordan then EVER were in British Palestine/Jerusalem/Port Of Jerusalem/Modern Israel.

 

Wow, you really think I would have said such a thing knowing anyone could just post something from wiki to disprove my statement?

Thats pretty funny.

Lets examine it;

Aden pogrom - not an Israeli war.

Arab / Israeli war - Israelis already attacking when arabs moved.

Yom Kippur - Israelis already postioned along the Bar Levi line hundreds of miles in Egypt. And settling further back.

As I said, Israelis have never ever fought a defensive war.

Next.

 

{{{So it belonged to the UK, not the people living there already? Or it was stolen from the people living there already by the British? }}}

Do you know what a mandate is, Wabbit???


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the Mandate for Palestine, was a geopolitic polity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Syria after World War I. The mandate formalised British rule in Palestine, from 1922 until 1948. With the League of Nations' consent, Britain subdivided the region covered by the mandate into two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River remained under direct British rule until 1948 and was known as Palestine, while the land east of the Jordan became a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, which gained independence in 1946.


Do you know what the word, administrate means, Wabbit???


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/administrate
to manage or direct (the affairs of a business, institution, etc.)


The British carved up Palestine like it was a turkey. The northern portion going to Syria and Lebanon and Administered by the French. Next, the English carved out 77% of the land known as Palestine to rule over themselves and re-named it Tras-Jordan..

Now, Wabbit, no one took any land from anyone, they were just told how everything was going to run as far as the Government went. Are you following so far??? Your not lost, right???

{{{{""" And if we're going back several thousand years, I guess anyone living in the U.S. or Canada needs to pack up and move out because we definitely stole this land from the natives""}}}

First, Marot is a terrorist sympathizer and is sympathizer to say anything if she/he thinks it will adavance her/his cause. Do you even begain to know the history of the area??? No??? Go back to WW1. That's where this all begain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917#Arab_opposition
Balfour Declaration


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence
During the war, Lawrence fought with Arab irregular troops under the command of Emir Faisal, a son of Sherif Hussein of Mecca, in extended guerrilla operations against the armed forces of the Ottoman Empire. He persuaded the Arabs not to make a frontal assault on the Ottoman stronghold in Medina but allowed the Turkish army to tie up troops in the city garrison. The Arabs were then free to direct most of their attention to the Turks' weak point, the Hejaz railway that supplied the garrison. This vastly expanded the battlefield and tied up even more Ottoman troops, who were then forced to protect the railway and repair the constant damage.

The promise to the Arabs was an all Arab nation ruled by Arabs namely, Sayyid Hussein bin Ali.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq
At the end of WW1 King Hussein sent his son, Emir Faisal, in 1919 to lead the Arab delegation to the Paris Peace Conference and, with the support of the knowledgeable and influential Gertrude Bell, argued for the establishment of independent Arab emirates for the area previously covered by the Ottoman Empire.

On 3 January 1919, Faisal and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Zionist Organization signed the Faisal–Weizmann Agreement for Arab-Jewish cooperation, in which Faisal conditionally accepted the Balfour Declaration based on the fulfillment of British wartime promises of development of a Jewish homeland in Palestine with the Faisal–Weizmann Agreement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal–Weizmann_Agreement
Faisal–Weizmann Agreement

The Brits reniged on their promises and completely screwed the Arabs. Things got a little tense shall we say.

The Jews had been buying land from the Arabs since the late 1800's. and continued to do so, mostly from nonresident landowners. Most of the land they bought was garbage but the Jews were able to make it work. In 1920 instead of attacking the Brits, who would have kicked their tails for them the arabs attacked the Jews in what is known as the 1920 Arab riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/riots29.html

Then your emotionally charged Arabs attaked the Jews again in 1929
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1929.php

Then the Arabs attacked the British in 1935 and had themselfs a good old time until 1939.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936–1939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
http://zionism-israel.com/dic/Arab_Revolt.htm

The British offered the Arabs 75% of what was left of Palestine (less the Syria, Lebanese and Tran-Jordan portions) twice, once in 1937 and again in 1938, the Arabs said they wanted it all so therefore, no deal!!!

The Brits came out with the 1939 White Paper which was illegal and went against their Mandate so then the Jews started playing games with them. In 1947 the British said they had enough and the U.N. would take over. The U.N. said that they were going to partition and the Arabs attacked the Jews a few days later and have never quit.

 

"Jewish State" is the problem.

By definition that's a theocracy. Historically, theocracy's are prone to violent internal struggles. But I suppose that was the whole point of writing 'Jewish State' in it's Proclamation of Independence and the Law of Return.

 

Not Syria or Iran

 

Similar to Iran. Syria is more similar to Nazi Germany in their legislation except that they somewhat go through motions of legitimacy.

 

How about Saudi Arabia??

 

Similar to Iran and yet out closest ally in the region. Why do you ask?

 

Since Obama ,yes our closest ally in the region

 

Don't you like Petroleum? It makes keyboards and computer screens. Obama good for keyboards and computer screens.

 

You still have YET to answer my initial question:

When, EXACTLY, did the term PALESTINE come into effect?

AND DON'T GIVE US POO ABOUT A "STATE" OR "NON STATE!"

DO TELL, Mr. Know!

DO TELL!

btw, Wikipedia does NOT COUNT for college research papers & shouldn't for you either!
PROVE THE POINT WITH VERIFIABLE, TRUSTWORTHY RESOURCES

 

Yeah ,what he said, answer the man pronto.

 

http://jimenaexperience.org/yemen/2...grom-of-1947-a-component-of-the-jewish-nakba/

Aden pogrom

An Eyewitness Account of the Aden Pogrom of 1947: A Component of the Jewish Nakba

One of the communities included in the Jewish Nakba was that of Aden, a seaport in southern Yemen. Aden was at that time a British Crown Colony. Its Jewish community of about 8,500 persons was an ancient one, tracing its history back well over 1000 years. Its fate was sealed in early December 1947, when a three-day strike took place in protest at the UN’s 30 November Partition Plan for Palestine (see map below). The strike soon degenerated into a pogrom.

This prolonged outbreak of disorder and violence left 74 Jews dead (76 and even 78 according to some reports) with – a subsequent Colonial Office inquiry headed by Sir Harry Trusted, formerly Chief Justice of Palestine found – a similar number seriously injured. Many Jewish homes were burned down, and of 170 Jewish shops, 106 were looted of their entire contents.



A non-israeli war??? No, it was the begains of the 1947 Arab/Jewish civil war!!

And since you don't like Wiki please show me how their acounts differ greatly??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Aden_pogrom
The 1947 Aden pogrom was one of the most violent attacks on Mizrahi Jewish communities in the Middle East in the modern times, resulting in at least 82 Jews murdered and a widescale devastation of local Jewish community of Aden, bringing an end to its millennia long histor


{{{{"""Arab / Israeli war - Israelis already attacking when arabs moved.""}}}


Since there have been 4 Arab/Israeli wars which one are you refering to??


{{{"""Yom Kippur - Israelis already postioned along the Bar Levi line hundreds of miles in Egypt. And settling further back."""}}}

And of course you must be talking about Isarael's hold on the Siani

http://www.answers.com/topic/arab-israel-war-3
President Anwar alSadat of Egypt sought to obtain the return of Sinai through diplomacy, and offered to reopen the Suez Canal if Israel would withdraw to the Mitla and Gidi passes in the Sinai Peninsula. He also offered to resume diplomatic relations with the United States and sign a peace pact with Israel, but Israel refused to withdraw to the armistice lines established before 5 June 1967.

While making diplomatic approaches to the conflict, Sadat was preparing for war. He contacted President Hafiz al-Asad of Syria to plan a two-front attack on Israel.


So, Egypt was just like the Japanese in 1941.



{{{""As I said, Israelis have never ever fought a defensive war.""}}}

Which is nothing but rubbish.

 

The term "Palestine" was brought into effect in 135 A.D. by the Romans giving a different name to the nation of Israel (by that time also know as Judea after the largest tribe of Israel) that they had just decimated the same way they had Carthage;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina
Syria Palæstina was a Roman province between 135CE and 390CE.[1] It had been established by the merge of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea, following the defeat of the Bar Kokhba Revolt in 135 CE. In 193 Syria-Coele was split to form a separate provincial locality. Syria Palaestina had become part of the splinter Palmyrene Empire for a brief period of 260-272 CE, but was restored under Roman central authority. Eventually the province became reorganized under Byzantium as part of the Diocese of the East, which included it as the provinces of Byzantine Syria, Palaestina Prima and Palaestina Secunda


Hey, Wabbit, please show me the Romans that live there. And since you DON'T like WIK try this one;

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_brief_history.php
At the time of Christ the Jewish state was ruled by puppet kings of the Romans, the Herods. When the Jews revolted in 66 AD, the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem (70 AD). The Bar Kokba revolt between 132 and 135 AD was also suppressed, Jericho and Bethlehem were destroyed, and the Jews were barred from Jerusalem. The Roman Emperor Hadrian determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. Therefore, he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina. The Romans killed many Jews and sold many more in slavery. Some of those who survived left the devastated country (and established Jewish communities throughout the Middle East) but there was never a complete abandonment of the Land of Israel. That is, there were always Jews and Jewish communities in Palestine, though the size and conditions of those communities fluctuated greatly.


Or this one

http://www.mideastweb.org/Middle-East-Encyclopedia/co/palestine.htm
About 61 B.C., Roman troops under Pompei invaded Judea and sacked Jerusalem in support of King Herod. Judea had become a client state of Rome. Initially it was ruled by the client Herodian dynasty. The land was divided into districts of Judea, Galilee, Peraea and a small trans-Jordanian section, each of which eventually came under direct Roman control. The Romans called the large central area of the land, which included Jerusalem, Judea. According to Christian belief, Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem, Judea, in the early years of Roman rule. Roman rulers put down Jewish revolts in about A.D. 70 and A.D. 132. In A.D. 135, the Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem, following the failed Bar Kochba revolt. The Romans named the area Palaestina, at about this time. The name Palaestina, which became Palestine in English, is derived from Herodotus, who used the term Palaistine Syria to refer to the entire southern part of Syria, meaning "Philistine Syria." Most of the Jews who continued to practice their religion fled or were forcibly exiled from Palestine, eventually forming a second Jewish Diaspora. However, Jewish communities continued to exist, primarily in the Galilee, the northernmost part of Palestine. Palestine was governed by the Roman Empire until the fourth century A.D. (300's) and then by the Byzantine Empire. In time, Christianity spread to most of Palestine. The population consisted of Jewish converts to Christianity and paganism, peoples imported by the Romans, and others who had probably inhabited the land continuously.



Or this one;

http://www.nh4israel.org/uploads/5/7/3/3/5733440/israel_or_palestine.pdf


One more?? O.K.;

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/135+AD
The Jews under their leader Simeon Bar-Kokhba are finally defeated by the Romans in Judaea, after a rebellion lasting three and a half years and costing over half a million lives. Many Jews are sold into slavery. This is the final destruction of the Jews as a nation in Judaea; they are forbidden to enter Jerusalem, which is renamed Aelia Capitolina. From now on, the Jews of the ‘Diaspora’, or ‘Dispersion’, are to take on most significance. Judaea is changed into the new consular province of Syria Palaestrina


So Wabbit, historically how much do they differ???

 

hehehehhe... I don't think he will the answer!!!

 

Lol. Again not an Israeli war. Not even a Nakba. Unless you want to tell us every violent incident involving jews hundreds of miles from israel in other countries is an israeli war.

1948 of course. In 47 Israelis moved to attack the district of Ramla, in the arab partition. Arab armies I think didnt invade for some months after.

Youve just proved my point. Israelis were already on the offensive when egypt attacked. In fact they were sitting a few hundred miles inside Egypt.

In what possible way is that a defensive war? The fact that they were sitting still on their positions? Is that it?

LOL, please.


As I said, Israelis have never ever fought a defensive war.

 

{{{{"""Sighting riots is kind of dumb,..."""}}}}

Not when you are talking about the history of the area.


{{{""" His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement ..... Arab opposition to British rule and Jewish immigration led to the 1920 Palestine riots .....nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country"""}}}

And nothing was done to the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. But there was a lot that the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine did to the Jewish communities!!


{{{"""...Arab opposition to British rule and Jewish immigration led to the 1920 Palestine riots and the formation of a Jewish militia known as the Haganah (meaning "The Defense" in Hebrew),


Is that right??? This had nothing to do with it??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots
Speeches by Arab religious leaders during the festival, in which traditionally large numbers of Muslims gathered for a religious procession, led to a serious outbreak of violent assaults on the city's Jews, with five Jews killed and hundreds wounded


http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1920-21.php
Haj Amin al-Husseini emerged as one of the leaders of the 1920 Arab riots in Palestine and incited the masses to murder Jews and loot their homes. While only in his late twenties, he became the youngest ever Mufti of Jerusalem in 1921, supported by the British.

http://www.mefacts.com/cached.asp?x_id=10564
What happened during the Arab riots of 1920-1921?
The first Arab riots of the Mandate period took place in Jerusalem in the intermediary days of Passover, in March 1920 ("Bloody Passover"). They were instigated by Arabs acting on unfounded rumors of Jewish actions against Arabs. The British military authorities did not intervene in the Arab attacks, while Vladimir Jabotinsky and other Jews were arrested for organizing a self-defense league. In April 1920, Joseph Trumpeldor and others were killed in the defense of Tel Hai, a settlement in the Upper Galilee. These developments led to the founding of the Haganah on June 15, 1920.


http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots
Speeches by Arab Palestinian religious leaders during the festival, in which traditionally large numbers of Muslims gathered for a religious procession, led to a serious outbreak of violent assaults on the city's Jews.

I think your beating a dead horse, Meg

http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/timeline/time1900.htm#tl_1900_2
The number of Jews in Palestine was small in the early 20th century; it increased from 12,000 in 1845 to nearly 85,000 by 1914.

So in 69 years it increase from 12,000 to 85,000 a whole 73,000. Wow, just herds of Jews, right Meg???

So let's talk about the Palestine that had so many Arabs in it, shall we Meg??? Was it the "Palestine" of today??? Or did it include Trans-Jordan??? How about the suthern parts of both Syria and Lebanon??? In other words about 85% of what was pre-WW1 "Palestine", right MEG??? What the Brits and French left of pre-WW1 "palestine" was less than 20% of the terrirtory, correct, Meg???


http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/timeline/time1900.htm#tl_1918_1
After World War I ended in 1918, Jews began to migrate to Palestine, which was set aside as a British mandate with the approval of the League of Nations in 1922



{{{...Arab opposition to British rule and Jewish immigration led to the 1920 Palestine riots ...}}}

And since the Arabs didn't want to attack the Brits they attacked an easier opponent, the Jews. Funny, isn't that what I originally said???

 

{{{""Again not an Israeli war""}}

Of coursae not, there was no Israel at the time, just a bunch of Arabs attacking and killing Jews.


{{{"""1948 of course. In 47 Israelis moved to attack the district of Ramla, in the arab partition. Arab armies I think didnt invade for some months after."""}}}

Say WHATTTTT, Critter??? To start with no Israelis could have done anything in 1947, there still wasn't a nation, country, or state called Israel so there were no Israelis!!! The Arabs attacked the Jews on Dec.2, 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Riots_of_1947
The Arab Higher Committee declared a three-day strike and public protest to begin on 2 December 1947, in protest at the vote. Arabs marching to Zion Square on December 2 were stopped by the British, and the Arabs instead turned towards the commercial center of the City at Mamilla and Jaffa Road, burning many buildings and shops. Violence continued for two more days, with a number of Jewish neighborhoods being attacked



http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/1947_Jerusalem_riots
1947 Jerusalem riots
The 1947 Jerusalem Riots occurred following the vote in the UN General Assembly in favour of the 1947 UN Partition Plan on 29 November 1947.

The Arab Higher Committee declared a three-day strike and public protest to begin on 2 December 1947, in protest at the vote. Arabs marching to Zion Square on December 2 were stopped by the British, and the Arabs instead turned towards the commercial center of the City at Mamilla and Jaffa Road, burning many buildings and shops. Violence continued for two more days, with a number of Jewish neighborhoods being attacked

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/brits.html
Dec. 2, 1947
Arabs looted and burned a three block Jewish business district in Jerusalem on December 2, the first day of a three day Arab general strike during which 20 Jews and 15 Arabs were killed. When British troops failed to intervene, Haganah came into the open for the first time in eight years to restrain large scale Jewish retaliation and also guard Jewish districts. Some Haganah men were arrested for possessing weapons. The day's strife caused $1 million worth of damage and resulted in a 21 hour curfew being applied to Arab Jerusalem for the rest of the week. The curfew was extended to outlying roads on December 3 to stop stonings of Jewish traffic and keep rural Arabs out of the capital. Max Pinn, head of the Jewish Agency's Trade and Transfer Deparunent was killed on December 2 when Arabs stoned his auto near Ramleh On this day dews stoned Arab buses in Jerusalem. On December 2, Haganah claimed to have mobilized 10,000 men in the intercity trouble zone, and the Arab Legion of Trans-Jordan reported on this date that it had reinforced Jaffa. Seven Jews were killed in Jaffa-Tel Aviv on this date. There were lesser attacks in Haifa this week. Also, the Syrian Parliament enacted a draft law and voted $860,000 for the relief of Palestinian Arabs. On the same day Arabs attacked the Jewish part of Aleppo. .

Dec. 3, 1947
On the Jaffa-Tel Aviv boundary, which also is under around-the clock curfew, the week's heaviest battle was a six-hour clash between Haganah and Arabs on December 3 in which seven Jews and five Arabs were killed and 75 persons injured. .


{{{{""""Youve just proved my point. Israelis were already on the offensive when egypt attacked. In fact they were sitting a few hundred miles inside Egypt."""}}}}

Wrong again, Critter. When a nation commits an act of war against you,you have every right to retaliate as you so choose. In 1956 Egypt's blockade ot the Straits of Tiran was an act of war and ferther more Egypt knew it and it was also a condition of the 1949 the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Tiran
....named after Tiran Island located at its inflow, on which the Multinational Force and Observers has an observation post to monitor the compliance of Egypt in maintaining freedom of navigation of the straits as provided under the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty.

Access to Jordan's only seaport of Aqaba and to Israel's only Indian Ocean seaport of Eilat is contingent upon passage through the Gulf of Aqaba, giving the Straits of Tiran strategic importance. Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst to the Suez Crisis in 1956 and the Six-Day War in 1967


So once more you don't know what your talking about, Critter.

 

Well indeed, youre example to disprove my statement fails by your own admission. It was far even from palestine, from the zoinist council of palestine and didnt involve any zionist forces.

So it wasnt an Israeli war - whats so hard about that to get?

To start with who is critter and why are you writing this word? Is it an intentional insult or a deception?

Indeed Israel was declared in May 48, prior to that the forces of the precursor to Israel, the Zionist Council, were on the move. This continued right up to May 48. Meaning that even when the Arabs moved in 48, the Zionist Council forces AND Israel if you prefer was already on the move into the arab partition areas.

As for your example, of riots, again its not a war. Not even a police action, or a move by an organised force. If thats to be counted you might as well count all the incidents of organised murder against both arabs and british almost every night for the year 1947.

It was YOU who mentioned the Yom Kippur war. You brought that example up. Rather than denying Israel was on the offensive you now admit that and instead try to justify it to us;

Specifically you admit that Israel was attacking as it was sitting on egpytian territory because, you tell us, that Israel had the right to start the previous war.

Regarding the previous war in 67, Im also Im happy to discuss as to whether that was a defensive or offensive war. Just dont call me any names, it doesnt make you look good. People reading us dont like it.

So again, by your own admission, Israel has never ever fought a defensive war.