Democratic India vs Communist China. Is democracy a bad thing?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Alien Traveler, May 21, 2014.

  1. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    There is no doubt: communist China is more successful economically than democratic India.

    Post-Soviet Belarus under tyrant is much better off economically that “democratic” Post-Soviet Ukrain.

    Iraq under Suddum, Libia under Gaddafi, Egypt under Mubarak were better off than after “democratic” revolutions.

    So, is democracy a bad thing for many countries (half a word, possibly)? Is US, promoting democracy by all its military means, a bad country?

    Why Americans do not understand that people should grow ripe for democracy? That democracy cannot be imported? Should some American super active promoters of democracy be jailed for the evil they have done?
     
  2. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    China is similarly fascist as Baathist Arab countries used to be .
    Yes Baathism is way more advanced than islamic republics or 3rd world banana ones. For example it asks for the emancipation of women , the promoting of arts and sciences , the advancement of the nation and so on .

    Stop looking at the numbers , economic indicators mean very little for the masses.

    The US is a primitive oligarchy (or a plutocracy , same thing) and this is what they are exporting , more advanced nations like say post WW2 Germany or Italy will ignore much of the product , less advanced ones like say 60's Portugal or Greece will adapt a more primitive version while in post 2002 stone age Afghanistan the whole thing will sound like written in Swahili .

    Societies have to climb a ladder from absolutism to no government and they can not be kicked up the stairs through force , after Iraq is left alone they will revert back to their pre-Baath days and start climbing again .
     
  3. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    American suggested democracies to Japan, Italy and Germany, after defeating them. Not only democracy here met a great success, but the three former enemies have become allies of the United States.

    If I was American I will never renounce to try and "export" democracy.
     
  4. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Your positive examples does not negate my negative examples. They just coexist.
     
  5. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    I am sorry, but here you are very wrong. From the beginning of times economic realities are much more important for masses than political ones.

    I see a Marxist here… Anyway, I appreciate your agreement with my post.
     
  6. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh ya? How's north Korea doing?

    There is no direct connection between political government broadly speaking and economic performance. There are plenty of logical reasons why China is outperforming India. It has a well educated work force., for starters. More natural resources.
     
  7. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And there are more counter examples going against you. If you MUST see a direct correlation, the facts suggest it goes the other way.
     
  8. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Probably i didn't posted right, apologies for my limited English.
    How much working class Americans benefited from the economic growth of the last 30 years ?
     
  9. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Have I sustained that?

    You're correct. Democracy is not "right" in absolute, it's relative, like reality [at least physics tells us this!].

    Anyway, and here my political partisan stance comes out [we are on a political forum, aren't we?], I do think that the risk to fail doesn't mean that it's not better to have a try ...
     
  10. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Example 1: I said “My aunt is sick…”
    Example2: You said “My aunt is well…”
    Example3: He said“My aunt is well…”

    So, on average, my aunt is well, I guess…
     
  11. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Now I understand you, but unfortunately it is not a subject of the thread. It is rather belongs to threads on globalization, growing inequality of wealth distribution, but not on necessity of democracy per se.
     
  12. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you don't understand the shortcomings of the correlation causation fallacy?
     
  13. munter

    munter New Member

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    Most poor countries are not ready for democracy.

    Hence, the whole pushing of it, is nothing other than a corporate sham.
     
  14. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    It is more an indictment of India than a matter of Chinese advantage.

    China may be corrupt by US (even Chicago) standards, but India is far more corrupt. The Chinese at least make a show of trying to reduce corruption, even standing a Party big dog up against the wall and administering 7.62mm re-education. India, on the other hand is fast approaching Pakistani levels of corruption.

    India is at a crossroads. They will either reduce their corruption and make up ground on China or let the corruption continue to fester and become a giant-sized Afghanistan.
     
  15. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    So, you do not understand that all your examples are from the past, and mine are from today.

    So, you do not understand that all your examples are from the past, and mine are from today
    Forcible democracy promotion does not work in today’s world.
     
  16. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whatever dude. You're welcome to your own opinion, not your own facts. I don't know how you can try to make any real assertion while trying to hold that north and south Korea don't exist. Your rationale, as well as many of your facts, are incorrect, which is why you rest on an erroneous and unsupported conclusion.

    There is only so much I can do when you are more invested in your conclusion than in reason and logic.
     
  17. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    If you think so highly of tyranny, why not move to such a utopian place? Then you can tell us all how good the living conditions are from a first hand perspective.
     
  18. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    The degree of democracy in China vs India is not the issue.

    The degree of corruption is the determining factor. Both are corrupt, but China slightly less so.
     
  19. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Please, read again before commenting.
     
  20. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You cannot make broad conclusions from a sample of two.

    Not every dictatorship has a bad economy, and not every democracy has a good one. However, if you canvas the world's most successful economies (per capita) you find that virtually all of them are democracies.

    Under the right conditions with the right leadership, a dictatorship can achieve strong economic growth, particularly if they are starting from a low starting point, e.g. China. Hitler's Germany in the mid to late 1930s had a pretty good economy; the SU economy in WWII did well and did pretty well in the 1950s and early 1960s; and Franco's Spain are examples.

    And there are certainly examples of democratic countries choosing poor leaders for economic purposes.

    However, the fundamental difference is that in a working democracy, there is much more direct feedback and input because they can change poorly performing governments and elect new governments with different policies. Something that is much less likely in a dictatorship.

    I think this is particularly true when an economy reaches the point where innovation becomes more important in the economy. Democracies provide the means imperfect as it may be, to criticize and change policies if it is perceived the current policies are hampering growth. Again, this is much less likely to occur in a dictatorship, where criticism of government policies is only going to be allowed to go so far.

    While countries like the SU and China may post impressive gains up to some level if the circumstances are right, I believe that ultimately these styles of government will hamper the ability of the economy to become fully developed economies on par with the leading economies of the world.
     
  21. FixingLosers

    FixingLosers New Member

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    Of course it's a bad thing.

    Candidate A: You must work really, really hard to get what you want.
    Candidate B: You can get what you want by robbing from the rich.

    Guess which candidate wins? In every democratic nation out there? Democracy is a system by and for scoundrels.
     
  22. FixingLosers

    FixingLosers New Member

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    But apparently a communist system that saints and angels like you are pursuing will never be turned into something like that right??? I mean because you guys are absolutely saints and apparently 10 times more sincere?

    Apparently you people are 100 times more sincere, believable and smarter than Lenin and Stalin? As long as you believe hard enough without ever considering the fact that you are going after a failed system where individuality are mercilessly suppressed and personal endeavors and achievements are disencouraged, you will succeed?

    But then again "we all know" that Lenin and Stalin are not the real deal, Trosky maybe, those who didn't really rise to power are for real because we have no way to know what kinda sellout jerks they would become do we?
     
  23. munter

    munter New Member

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    Because most of those countries have strict immigration policies - they know the folly of mass immigration.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Of course, that's why China is now poised to become the biggest player in the World.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What gibberish are you talking about now?

    What system robs the rich - no, it does not exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Trotsky did not rise to power. This is because he was an idealist.
     
  24. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only because of the sheer number of people. Per capita it is still way down the road.
     
  25. munter

    munter New Member

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    So why isn't highly populated India any better off?

    No, it's all down to organisation - Mao showed China the way, now the rewards are being reaped.
     

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