~ Desperately seeking the reality of reality~

THE TALKING POINT IS IN BLUE, IF ANYONE WANTS TO SKIP THE 'FLUFF'.

Time and time again but not really again...or ~ Seeking the reality of reality~

I am interested our members opinion of certain subjects, most of which deal with the nature of reality. Most of us don’t think about what reality really is, which is probably a good idea. I say that because these days thinking about it drives me crazy, and sometimes its more like a sentence of mental hard labor than fun ! Anyway by the time I was in middle school I began wondering why some people believed in God OR science with a desperate urgency (it seemed). Still as I went through high school I felt philosophy and related subjects were useless in real life and were a complete and waste of time. Happily those useless subjects became a ‘ very, very necessary waste of time’ due them being mandatory subjects if I wanted to earn the type degree I dreamed of since I was old enough to drive. That was anything that combined theology, cultural anthropology, ‘physical anthropology‘ and archaeology. I finally got that degree after substituting over ten years of night classes for a social life and homework for entertainment. The reason for explaining all the above is because I often get questioned by the usual suspects and other skeptics of the how’s and whys etc I obtained my educational experience, degrees etc, etc. I am hoping if I explain it first there will be no similar (personal) questions, or (personal) comments later. Such questions only derail a thread etc.

So the talking point is ; How do you define reality? In other words what do you believe as real and why or by what authority? As I said at the beginning of this thread what defines YOUR reality and what or who etc do you consider an authority for believing what is real or not, and why things happen such as ‘why the sun does “rise” every morning etc‘. Hopefully the examples will help clarify this difficult to explain talking point. God bless this forum and the members (or not if the blessing offends).

~…......... E X A M P L E ’ S…..........~


1.……Member RevGoddidit reply to this post; ‘ RGdit’ …. “I believe that the sun will rise because God sez it will“.

(RevGdit) uses faith in God for his quantifying authority


2.…..Secular Sam sez; ‘I believe the sun will rise because it’s come up all my life so I bet it always will ! (SSam uses life experience for his quantifying authority.)

3.…..Skeptic Steve, the scientific atheist Sez; The earth spins and wobbles (precession) as it orbits our star, the sun that gives us the illusion that the sun rises, our years, and the seasons. Anyway, I know this is true because we have scientific evidence for it. (SSteve uses science as a quantifying authority.)

Lastly the examples are just for clarity, however I will say they can be used in combination or maybe you have other methods to use as a map to make sense of where we are going, what route to travel we choose on our long journey through spacetime, from the moment of birth to the final destination. (Alternatively, just maybe and this author would say probably it is the beginning of an existence that is far more ‘real’ than this temporary success existence. Reality of an eternal kind). Maybe, probably, hopefully not).

God bless~

reva

 

thanks..... moost of your rants are a waste of time

nature.

god dont make the world turn

you can barely open a dialogue on the matter, so god sure aint helping you

and I sez that claim is crap, a lie, false witness, against the commands and pretty much from a weak sob (as my example)

at least that opinion is honest and he does not have to use a liars opinion and claim it as its own

So steve uses information that can be verified, with or without his personnal belief. I like the integrity there



Have you ever answered them questions to test your own integrity?

 

I think simply, that it boils down to what you accept as truth, that is, the substence of reality. What is truth? What is reality? Is it merely an existential limit of what we can consciously percieve? Or, is it something more concrete that is discoverable beyond the margins of our perception in the presence of what is false that confuses what truth is?

 

can you consciously percieve awareness?

when you comprehend that perception, then reality is easy, honestly

that wuld be like considering yur horse doing yu, but unable to observe; a manmade creation of mind

 

Non- verified igorant claims and insult isnt debate. And you are full of both.

No he allows it to turn and created nature.

Your attention seems to be limited to a one line response. Barly hun? Oh you mean barely! Lol… As I write for the new members and guests who might be visiting PF etc. Not the lost boys ie the usual suspects. Without my and a few other members here that counter the useless drivel of the usual suspects this forum would be insulting trash.

And I say the real sob are bigoted secular fools that fear and hate what they don’t know or is not like they are. They can be relgious or secular all are dangrous to our gene pool.

Honest huh, like the ‘scientific’ Piltdown man that was in text books for 40 years???

Lol, I say ignorance is bliss. 95% Science is a guess that will be a quaint myth in a hundred years. So you are believing an demonstrable lie if you believe all the claims of science. However I love science and we need applied science. I use and enjoy both science and religious belief because science is nessasary even if only the best guess, but and religion is truth where truth matters.

Yes I have and they are true.

reva

 

Great reply. At least one member here can intelligently debate or comment! The definition of reality may be completely individualized.(I think that is called Slopism)..or reality might be ?

reva

 

Is it individualized? I wonder. If reality is left to arbitrary perception of the individual then that reality does not apply to others and in that case is not replicatable, nor can it be derived from any tradition as they would all be wrong since the individual has control of its construct. Reality has to have some substantive basis and it has to be knowable through some means in order for it to truly be reality.

 

We all define Reality by agreeing that it corresponds, one-to-one, with The Truth.

Some Truth is clearly revealed to us through our sense, while other areas of Reality are gradually described by Empirical Science.
We construct an image of this all powerful "other" entity which insists "I am" out here interacting with you mortals.
We use facts to build our model of Truth that corresponds to this entity.


Now some people believe that they have built the model of Truth which is congruent to Reality, but that is only their own individual perception of the real Truth that exists independent of man, totally.

Truth is a perfect and ideal representation of Reality available to man, who has the God-given ability to image this almighty power external to him.

But man also is under the influence of motivations that tend to get him to rationalize, avoid The Truth, keep things as they are, even when the Truth is that men are living in a fantasy world to some extent, not facing the real Facts-of-Life.
These motivations are the evil side of man, which because of temporary and personal benefits, he see the lie better for him that the Truth might be for everyone.

 

"Reality" comes in different forms. There is physical or tactile reality that most people agree on- a rock is hard, a breast is soft, the sun casts light, shadows are created in the void, sugar is sweet, a fresh lemon is sour. We may not all agree on the degree of: soft, hard, light, sweet, sour, but there is a common understanding regardless.

Spiritual and psychological realities however are not of common understanding (sense). These realities differ from person to person and within any individual's lifetime. Such "truths" are not measured by the litmus test of an entire population, but by each person. These realities are genuine for every sentient being unto themselves. I can no more claim your reality of "God" is wrong, nor that mine is right, nor that those who do not believe are wrong. These attempts to measure truth against each other are psychological games; some of us simply want to tell others they are wrong, and some perhaps want to justify their own beliefs or insecurities by proclaiming the ultimate knowledge, and more simply truly believe what they say and want others to share in their personal enlightenment and that in and of itself is either a measure of hubris or delusion.

 

Reality is the stage play that is occurring in the mind of God. We are all the actors and as actors in that play we have our individual roles that are scripted (predestined). We like to think that we are in control but are we really. I remember back in the 60's, the event was Woodstock... I truly wanted to attend... but for various reasons was unable to make the trip. Reality: Did the Woodstock event take place? Reality is the moment of time and geography of space in which we exist.

 

There is a philosophical idea called Solipsism that is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. It is the only epistemological position that teaches anything outside one's own mind may not exist. As per the web on solipsism; The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.” ~~~ end of web quote. ~~~

I think while solipsism is irrefutable, by irrefutable I mean it can not be disproved, its not true for various reasons. But it might be an counter argument to your statement below.

I kind of like solipsism and used it in the past because it could be true and it explained one of the most troubling things about the Christian God and the bible* among other things. I still employ bits of solipsism in my paradigm, or model of reality, umm’ in other words I use it to build what I consider is reality and truth.

Thanks for your reply.

note; * troubling things means how can a loving God allow evil pain and suffering in the world. Its a standard weapon of malicious atheists. By malicious activist atheists. I am a live and let live kind of guy and am tolerant of almost every belief way life etc including atheism. However malicious activist atheists are an exception. I love my live and let live atheist brothers and sisters, but worry about the fate of their souls. However the malicious types… umm’, well I do not care for them in one way and love them in another way.


reva

 

My thanks to everyone that took the time to write a rebuttal or comment. All the replies are thought provoking and interesting. I will attempt to respond to all that require one lol, but its past time for church, God bless PF and its members.



Reva

PS.... Hello Incorporeal ! It has been a while since I last cast my eyes upon your font!

 

If you define "perceptions" the contrast with Reality become clear.

Psychologically, we are using the hard Facts of Life available to construct for ourselves what we, individually, THINK is true, and in our opinion, will defend as the Real World experience.

Even if every man went extinct. Reality would continue to forever unfold and leave a record of Truth in its wake.

 

An unprovable speculation yet perhaps a belief which you hold therefore true to you and not necessarily true to all others.

 

That is way Reality cries out, "I am."

Reality at our birth surprises ever new born who had been alone in the solitude and safety of the womb.
With a smack on the Butt, reality rushes into our mind carrying messages, as if angels from some unknown source, demanding we respond back or else suffer pain instead of pleasure.

From that moment forward, we must remember "I am what I am becoming to you."
We must face Reality or suffer.
We must bow to Reality which both threatens us and nurtures us.

Our only savior is that by the grace of this Reality, Truth s available to us.
Truth can help us co-exist with Reality and utilize the natural laws which is its spirit to better our environment and assist our struggle to live.

 

Yes, perception is reality when it comes to matters of spiritual belief. It can be no other way.

 

Reality~

Those aspects of life that have shown themselves to be confirmed through Experience, Experimentation, Observation, or Sensory evaluation.

 

HUH ? I've made friends with a few garden birds + squirrels - I've no idea what their spiritual beliefs are - but they've come to anticipate me feeding them - I imagine they see me and the food I bring as their reality.
( no evidence of spiritual beliefs )


One of the Black birds snarled at me , + looked like he was prepared to fight me for a juicy moth which he just caught.- I sheepishly back down + withdrew.

Perhaps some of you guys should get out into the real world and discover REALITY.


(wink)

 

If you back down from a black bird, you are a racist. Were the bird yellow, you would show no fear.

 

You could say that I'm just plain chicken when it comes to standing up against our feathered friends . (wink)


.....

 

C0cks can be really scary.

 

No way.

Perception is just what you think is this case or that.
Crazy people think fantasy worlds are real, for instance.

That is why we say they are crazy.

Especially, when people start to perceive spirits and the worlds that those spirits supposedly inhabit, they are merely imagining this is the case.
Unless they can substantiate these ideas with some factual evidence, they are what science calls mere hypothesis.

 

?

BY DEFINITION:

truth

/tro͞oTH/
Noun

That which is in accordance with fact or reality:

 

Hmmm...

That sounds like the definition for Facts.

Facts are the building blocks of Reality, but the total construction is everything that exists:


re·al·i·ty

/rēˈalətē/
Noun
The world or the state of things as they actually exist

 

Yeppir: "Even if every man went extinct. Reality would continue to forever unfold and leave a record of Truth in its wake." is speculative. Why? Because if every man went extinct, there would be no-one left to validate that 'truth'. Truth would at that point cease to exist, as 'truth' can only operate within the mind of man.