Did God create evil?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Grugore, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Earlier today, some nit wit claimed that since God created everything, he also created evil, and that means that God is evil. Let's examine this statement.

    Evil is not a thing, like a rock or electricity. Evil is the absence of good. Compare it to a hole in the ground. The hole is there, but it does not have it's own existence. A hole is nothing but an absence of dirt. Nothing more. So there is really no such thing as a hole, nor is there a thing called evil. It is simply the absence of good. Any questions?
     
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  2. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Then how do you distinguish a neutral thing from an evil thing? Good is absent in both.
     
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  3. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Neutrality indicates no choice either way. There can be no good or evil until a choice is made and acted upon.
     
  4. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    OK, so you are excluding things (even ideologies, if not acted upon) from being evil then, since things choose nothing (not really where I was going with it, but I though it worth pointing out). But my main point is, what if a choice is made which is neither good nor evil? It would fall under your definition for "evil" since it is not good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  5. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Ask yourself what evil is. Evil can be defined as any action, or inaction, that results in the deliberate harm of another. Whether it's physical, emotional, or financial harm doesn't matter. So a choice of neutrality causes no harm and is not evil or good. By definition, neutrality is no choice. So I don't know what you're trying to say here. Good or evil is a choice. Neutrality isn't.
     
  6. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    So if someone digs a hole for you to fall in and you fall in it, would you say that you cannot blame the person, because the hole isn't really an object in itself, it is merely an absence of the ground which used to hold you up?

    It seems to me the fundamental nature doesn't really matter. The fact/idea that evil isn't its own object doesn't mean that one is justified in making it come about, or even in creating a lived in world in which such absences exist (unless of course you are incapable of creating such a world, but that shouldn't apply to an omnipotent being).
     
  7. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    You obviously don't get it. There is good and there is evil. If you choose good, there is no evil. If you choose evil, there is no good. Simple. Evil is the absence of good. I can prove this easily. If you choose good. what do you have? Pretty obvious. If you choose evil, what do you have? Also obvious. An absence of good. Good and evil cannot coexist. It's one or the other. Evil is the absence of good.
     
  8. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Ok then, consider this:
    • Suppose we live in a purely materialistic universe. A hurricane kills you. There is no "deliberate harm". The hurricane, along with the rest of the universe, is neutral.
    • Suppose instead that we live in a universe subject to the whims and machinations of an all-powerful being. Now this hurricane has intent behind it. As do many other harmful things. By the definitions put forth by you, I submit that God, if he exists, is the author of evil.
     
  9. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That sentence made me think of this from Revelation.

     
  10. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Hurricanes, as well as other natural disasters are the result of sin. When Adam sinned, God cursed all of Creation. So natural disasters are our punishment for sinning against God. Therefore, God is not evil.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  11. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    The definition of a lukewarm Christian is someone who does not have the Holy Spirit in their life. They have never surrendered their life to Christ. That is why they are lukewarm. They have never received Christ as their Lord and Savior. They are not neutral. They have made a decision, and that decision was not good, because they have rejected Christ.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, God created evil. By creating beings with Free Will, He unleashed evil upon reality.

    However, the only alternatives are to have created beings without Free Will (robots), or to have not created beings at all.

    So given the choice between being a robot, not existing at all, or living in a reality where some are evil, I don't think God did such a bad thing.
     
  13. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And here, I thought it just meant they weren't trying very hard to obey, understand the word, and follow in Christ's footsteps, forgiving others and asking to be forgiven when necessary, helping those truly in need, visiting those in prison and so on, even though they believe and accept that Christ died and rose, once, and for all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  14. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    If one is truly a Christian, that fact will be reflected in their actions. Imagine someone who claims to be a Christian but has never once witnessed to another about Christ. Are they really a Christian? I think not. Also, take another look at that last verse. "I stand at the door and knock." What do you think that means? It means that they really weren't Christians in the first place. If they were, the Holy Spirit would be active in their lives.
     
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  15. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, does cold actually exist? I mean like when it snows.....the temperature we think is cold.
     
  16. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Cold is the absence of heat.
     
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  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure that's exactly how many Christians talk about evil or what they imply when they refer to it and this kind of statement is in response to that. Anyway, even if evil was just the absence of good, wouldn't that mean God didn't create enough good? :)
     
  18. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    God is infinitely good. The problem is that many choose not to be good.
     
  19. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I don't have a problem with the idea of evil being the absence of good. I have a harder time wrapping my head around why that should mean that creating a world in which evil is present/possible (when it was possible to create a world in which it was not) isn't considered evil.

    God would have had the choice between a world where kids get bone cancer and one where they do not. It may be true that a healthy bone is merely the absence of a bone with cancer, but I don't see how that gets you out of the fact that there were two options and we ended up with the option that had more suffering.
     
  20. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    So you admit, "deliberate harm" is done by God to everyone in response to something done by some dude long ago, thereby meeting your own definition of evil (choosing to do deliberate harm and acting on that choice).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  21. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Do you even believe in God?
     
  22. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    We are not being punished for what Adam did. We are being punished for what we are. Consider this. Can you get good fruit from a bad tree? The answer is no. When Adam sinned, he passed that sinful nature on to the rest of us. Just like the tree. And there is not a single living being who has not themselves sinned. Young children are a possible exception. Not that they haven't sinned, but that they haven't reached the age of accountability yet. So if they die, they go to Heaven. Even though they have sinned, they were not old enough to understand their relationship with God and make the decision to follow Christ. Everyone has to make a choice. Good or evil. There are no innocents in Hell. Everyone who goes there goes by their own choice. That's a fact. Also, if you were killed by a hurricane, you would deserve to go to Hell, because you have rejected Christ. It's that simple.
     
  23. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    But you are contradicting yourself. That's something. If evil is deliberate harm then evil is a thing, but your OP says it isn't a thing. According to the logic of this post (as opposed to the OP), good is the absence of harm, meaning that good isn't a thing. It is just the absence of evil.

    Also, if you are a believer in the Bible, the Bible says God created evil.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  24. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is that simple (according to the theology presented) and that pathologically evil.
     
  25. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Neither is good.

    Are demons things? And if not, what did Jesus cast out of Mary Magdalene et al?

    Then how can there be a choice between the two?

    You think he was tempted by nothing?
     

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