Discrimination against trans people

Trans people are reporting discrimination in high numbers. And it's "widespread." Or is it? How do you know?

This article by a "progressive" organization paints a pretty dark picture, but it's all based on anecdote. Over 20 % of the trans respondents "report" losing a job or promotional opportunity because they are trans. But people are fired all the time for reasons having nothing to do with sex or gender. We've all met people who have dubious claims about why they were fired..

How can we know that a trans person was fired due to being trans and not for excessive tardiness or inability to work well with others? Or simple incompetence, or that he would have been promoted but for his gender? Presumably they would not have been hired in the first place had the employer had some anti-trans agenda.

I'm especially skeptical because of my background. I'm from a medium size deep southern town. Even in the 50s and 60s, there were prominent and successful gay and lesbian (I know it's not the same as trans) business owners. You wouldn't know that from the stereotypes of rednecks. My own conservative parents went to some of their cocktail parties. Nobody gave a flip. I am sure some were harassed at one time or another, but lots of people get harassed for one reason or another. I now live in the Dallas area, and gay and trans people are commonplace. Again, no one gives a flip. Business owners are desperate for labor and a person’s sexual identity or private life is low on the list of things they worry about.

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...e-lgbt-peoples-lives-subtle-significant-ways/

 

The article itself should be suspect because of the origin, but the topic is valid. One of the things to be looked at it timing. If someone is fired shortly after coming out or being outed then the likelihood of it being related to being trans or gay is high. Or it is shortly after a supervisor change or the supervisor has been harassing the person for being trans or gay. However if it's not due to a recent change odds are it is the individual, not their status as trans or gay.

 

In a local mall, there is a jewelry store that has hired a transgender man that tries to look like a woman, sort of. Wears high heels, some make up but the clothes are more manly than womanly. I can tell you that people start to walk up to the kiosk and then walk quickly away to another jewelry store. They lose customers. Image is important to many businesses in the sales and marketing arena. Would you have a problem with this young man losing his job because sales at the store isn't enough to keep the store open? Or, would you have a problem losing his job because his image doesn't promote enough business for the store to remain open. I know what the answer would be for the owner of that store.

 

I'm sure you're right, but how can this be known for sure?

 

Really? Good grief...

 

Yes, really. Why are you being sarcastic? I said I'm sure you're right. Did you, for example, see people turning away in obvious disgust?

 

Yes sir! In disgust.

 

I think a lot of cases where trans people claim to be discriminated against, they were treated as their actual sex and but their identity.

Most of the issue people have with them is accepting women have penises and men give birth is just not going to happen.

I think they are being used as a cudgel against more traditional uptight types.

 

I think there might be several issues happening here.

People may have issues interacting with trans people that don't come from disgust. Do you call them a ma'am or sir, they look like a dude so you may slip up and some times people react in ways that cause confrontations.

It's easier just to go somewhere else. I could see this being an issue.

 

On this trans issue, assuming I am willing to call you a woman -- even though you have a perfectly functioning penis, urethra, scrotum, seminal vesicle, testes, vas deferens, epididymis, prostate, bulbourethral gland, and ejaculatory duct -- must I also call you female?

 

How do you know they are perfectly functioning? How do you know if they are even all present?

 

Why would that matter?

It seems people are willing to call someone the opposite sex but they're not willing to believe they're an opposite sex.

 

If a man can identify as a woman regardless of whether its actually true, then a man can identify as woman who was fired for identifying as woman regardless of whether its actually true.

 

I am not sure that is necessarily true. Maybe it was how the employee changed their behavior after first coming out that prompted it.

Anyway, I don't really believe in one-size fits all answers or issues to begin with. I see what I assume are trans people working in stores. It is either that or they are roll-playing which is something I see a lot that I totally don't get. Cosplay is even stranger to me than transgender stuff. Effing anime.....

 

That's the reason that I used the term "likelihood". It acknowledges that the reason could be something else, such as what you noted.

Also, you do realize that cosplay isn't limited to anime, right? People in the US have been dressing up as comic and cartoon and TV characters for longer than anime was introduced in the US. I remember one year I dressed up as Snyder (the building handyman) from One Day at a Time. Won 2nd place in the costume contest for that. Of course cosplay has evolved since then and become more popular.

 

There is a difference between entering a custome contest and walking around cosplaying every day.

 

Very few do, even the professional cosplayers. I won't say none, but outside of events, very few do.

 

I mean stipulating that your male parts are perfectly functioning (and please don't say "what do you mean 'male'?"), then you aren't female. Even if they are defective, they are still male parts an you're a male.

Words have to mean something, and we have to have common understanding of meanings, or they are just noises. We have to start with common language, otherwise we can't function.

"Speeding? What do you mean 'speeding,' officer? And how do I know that's a real badge?"

 

I don't think discrimination is getting worse. In fact I think it's the opposite. I think they are feeling more empowered to speak out and know there will be less repercussion for doing so in the larger public sphere than there used to be and that some people will listen.

It's the similar effect of when a man in power molests and extorts women and they say nothing. After a few women brave enough speak up and clear the way, others follow.

 

I think the "discrimination" is that straight men don't want to date a trans woman.

I've seen multiple videos and articles where trans women are flirting with guys and once the guy finds out the trans woman is really male he has no interest. As if straight men not being homosexual is this horrendous thing.

 

Yeah I mean vaginal sex is obviously not an option so...

 

That's the discrimination the belief that trans women are really men.

There seems to be an effort to try and deny the reality of sex.

 

That is a better wording of what you intended to say.

Granted, but words and definitions update through use and through new knowledge. Take the word gay for example. That has certainly shifted all over the place. At first it just meant joyous or festive. Then it was a derogatory term for homosexuals, and now it is non-derogatory label for homosexual. To claim that common understanding and use of words do not change is to have your head buried in the sand.

This actually highlights some of the reality of language, especially when it comes to law. For example, under common use, the term "incest" refers to sex between people who share blood (usually within 1 to 3 steps, rarely more), but under the law of some states, the definition of "incest" is expanded to adopted or step family members even if there is no shared blood, and might also extend to marriage even if no sex takes place. As to the badge, it is sad that there have been too many stories of people posing as police to attack others. We have had one in my area recently and another about a decade ago.

 

If they are post op, it is.

 

I would say even then it isn't vaginal sex.