Do you support any legal decision with a foundation in lies?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by DixNickson, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you believe that it really doesn't matter if lies are misrepresented as truth if the desired end truly justifies any means to attain it?

    If you were the litigant and a legal judgment against you were based on false information, would you accept the decision as an accurate, proper, true and balanced judgment? Or would you see this as a mockery, an amoral strategy that was successful in denying a fundamental truth and you, your unbiased day in court?

    Is it a just decision when a woman is convinced to perjure herself, to bring about a verdict against unborn children, claiming that she had been raped when she had not? Or one who never intended to, nor did she, abort her child and yet her "legal desire" via her "legal representative" to end her pregnancy was elemental, central and necessary for the case to be presented for judgment.

    Over fifty-five million other human lives have been denied the basic human right to eat, pray, love, walk, talk, run, comfort, cry, grieve, be comforted...to simply exist...based on lies.

    Isn't it terrible to contemplate when even one life is taken based on lies and how horrifically compounded it is when realizing that, to date, more than fifty-five million have been lost to the final solution of abortion.

    Why do we tolerate, be it in the name of a strategy of deception, amoral political philosophy or chic mantra, so many being sacrificed to the flawed and self-serving creed of "any desired end can be justified by any means"?
     
  2. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    How is it a lie that pregnancy and childbirth carry great risk to the life and health of a woman? Why is it wrong for her to choose whether or not she wants to face this risk?

    Why should a woman not have a right to her own reproductive organs, her own reproductive health?
     
  3. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Your whole argument is floored simply because you start with premise that abortion laws are based on lies .. I could just as easily say the same about the pro-life stance.

    Lie 1 - That at conception you have an independent sentient person
    Lie 2 - That pro-life is not about control
    Lie 3 - That pro-life is not based in religion
    Lie 4 - That all people who support pro-choice are murderers, nazi's or worse
    Lie 5 - That pro-lifers "care" about the unborn
    Lie 6 - That pro-lifers research all sides of the debate
    Lie 7 - That pro-lifers are for all the un-born no matter race or creed
    Lie 8 - That pro-lifers only report the actual truth
    Lie 9 - That pro-lifers would never twist the evidence to suit their agenda
    Lie 10 - That pro-lifers care about the post born

    To this point not one of you has produced a single thing to back up your assumption, everything you post is laced with hyperbole, propaganda and sensationalism.
     
  4. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Legislators make law, courts make decisions.

    Dear Pasithea & Fugazi, I understand the passion and no retreat mindset, if this dictated your response, please re-check the OP thread title and my post for contextual reference. I am talking about the national landmark decisions of '73.
     
  5. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who are you saying convinced McCorvey to lie? It was her own idea:
    "She initially said that her third pregnancy, the one in question at the time of Roe v. Wade, was the result of rape, but years later she said she had invented the rape story in an attempt to make a stronger case for an abortion. The rape story was of little consequence to her lawyers, because they wanted to establish a right to abortion for all women, not just those who had been raped."
    http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortionus/a/norma_mccorvey.htm

    Obviously she did intend to have an abortion, but she was forced to give birth before the case was decided. The Roe v. Wade decision was not based on belief that she was raped. It was based on a woman's right to sovereignty over her own body and finding that the Constitution's "use of the word (person) is such that it has application only postnatally. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible pre-natal application."

    "This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth
    Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action,
    as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth
    Amendment's reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to
    encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.
    The detriment that the State would impose upon the pregnant woman by
    denying this choice altogether is apparent. Specific and direct harm
    medically diagnosable even in early pregnancy may be involved. Maternity,
    or additional offspring, may force upon the woman a distressful life and
    future. Psychological harm may be imminent. Mental and physical health
    may be taxed by child care. There is also the distress, for all concerned,
    associated with the unwanted child, and there is the problem of bringing a
    child into a family already unable, psychologically and otherwise, to care for
    it. In other cases, as in this one, the additional difficulties and continuing
    stigma of unwed motherhood may be involved. All these are factors the
    woman and her responsible physician necessarily will consider in
    consultation."
    http://www.ambrosevideo.com/resources/documents/54.pdf
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dick .. the main point here is that the Pro Life position is based on lies.

    There is no scientific consensus claiming that the zygote is a living human.
     
  7. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, I am not mistaken that posters on this thread to date (exception Dix) that lies are acceptable in a court of law as long as it can be or is used to bring about the "right" decision? You know these really are only teensy, weensy lies anyway. These are only included as non-prose to just, you know, flesh out a story, make it a more interesting read for judges...now it doesn't really matter that these are not factually true.

    Everyone here is, by omission, de facto endorsing this act that undermines the very foundation of justice as acceptable.
     
  8. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Can you cite the parts of the Roe v Wade that you find to be built on lies?
     
  9. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Well as the landmark decision isn't mention at all in the Op then are we supposed to read your mind.
    You have said that it was based on lies, please show from the case where there are lies.
     
  10. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Been on my mind for a wee bit, after reading articles where each woman commented on inaccuracies/falsehoods/untruths/lies etc. in their cases. Have to look for those articles...you never heard anything about this?
     
  11. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    No I haven't.
     
  12. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True, my apology for that. However it was in my mind as I was writing the post while thinking on two articles I had read recently. Obviously you are not a mind-reader :)
     
  13. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    No problem :)

    Now where are those lies?
     
  14. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OP was referenced and written on two separate accounts in two separate articles, on statements made by each woman whose case was decided that day in 1973. My OP is, imo, a fair representation of what the respective articles shared regarding each woman's account.

    One woman's court claim was a pregnancy due to a rape that did not happen and the other though she never wanted, intended to and in fact ran away so she could not be coerced into having an abortion but was the injured party in a case where it was pursued as if she wanted an abortion. You might say that these lies have no bearing. I would then ask, why would anyone have them included in a legal case as a matter of fact? Maybe each woman just took one for the team? Yeah I know, today as then, the ends justify the means.

    The troublesome part for me, regarding perjury, is that human failing where we can defend lies in courts just as long as we receive our heart's desire. Still, I believe it undermines the very foundation of the justice system. Yeah I know, unfortunately for me, for many bearing false witness and all that jazz is more a religious, moral thing relegated to so yesterday and other by-gone eras.
     

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