Oy vey! 1) Images of a Russian fighter jet i.e. a well known and publicly declared piece of military technology. I can look up the specs in Janes if I want. Show me a Janes entry under the heading of 'UFOs, types and classes.' 2) I can physically inspect any damage caused by the weapons fire and or recover forensic traces of the weapons used. 3) I can visit the MAKS airshow and do a walk around of any aircraft on display. If I am a foreign government representative I can sit-in, touch and otherwise physical examine the aircraft of my choice. (BTW the last time I attended Farnborough the lizard people of Regulous 5 had not set up a display offering their latest 'Buzz Lightyear' class star fighter next to Lockheed's stand.) I can go to the factory where the Russians built the aircraft etc etc. QUOTE="One Mind, post: 1071499236, member: 66829"]Take off that filter so we get out of stupid mode. The water is fine where I am at .[/QUOTE] Again- not saying UFOs (alien spaceships) aren't a possibility - just want some physical proof of there existence. Which is what ??????? (he waits) So until such time as that shows up I'd check its not alcohol your consuming instead of water. Wishing something was true does not make it true.
So if Russia gets a new fighter not yet listed and our pilots see it and have radar and film of it ....this is not evidence? Unless we shoot one down and hold a piece of it? Right! Lol Thing is our military know these craft are real and they are untouchable. They may not know their origin or who made then but know we cant do a thing with them . And they are not attacking us. And they know these craft are real using eye ball evidence along with combat instruments. Plus the interactions spanning 70 years .
Also Monash, I dont want these beyond human tech craft to exist at all ! But I will not ignore the evidence even if we have no piece of the higher tech craft we can puzzle over. Truth is we have enough evidence from interaction with these craft . Ignoring that or dismissing existing evidence is imo rather silly if stupid seems too harsh. Perhaps govts heeded the opinion of the brookings institute and think people who are in denial will panic ? And some would lose it as their cherished view of reality was smashed to pieces? Plus no military with big balls want to tell our people these craft can do as they will and are untouchable? If they turned bellicose we lose ! I can handle the truth and yet our govt wont inform their citizens that there are things here wrwe didnt and cannot make due to a limitation in our science If one is aware of the existing evidence there can be no rational denial. So those who deny are either uninformed or have some psychological propensity to reject facts. I am not a part of the crazy ufo community . indeed I think most are indulging in new age fantasy . And this hurts serious inquiry and has kept the subject in the chuckle sector. And it is understandable. I am driven by facts not fantasy I dont believe in space brothers or evil reptilians. But I know something engineered these craft that absolutely exist. And they have been here since the 1940s. At minimum. Whatever they are they dont act like our species . Thankfully
Every new fighter or combat aircraft produced by the worlds air forces gets 'tagged' by the their opponents intelligence services almost immediately after development starts. They might not get good photos or estimates of it's capabilities right away but shortly after they start testing their development models in the air that happens too. By the time time it has reached deployment stage the whole world knows and the government responsible puts it on display - because there['s no point trying to hid it any longer. And that whole process from whoa to go takes maybe what a decade tops? Now how long have we been chasing UFOS? 70, 80 years? and nothing. Not a single paint chip or surface sample, not one high fidelity close up photo. And forget just the US air force not a single piece of hard evidence in anyone's hands in that entire time be they private, commercial or a scientific organization. And that's in a world anyone can access all the modern technology they might need to monitor, collect and forensically analyze suspected pieces of alien technology or their emissions. There is very little tech in current generation warplanes that can't be matched by off the shelf purchases in the civilian market. Program development for the F-35 started in 1996!. How much do you think civilian electronics has improved in the meantime? And yes the F-35 will get upgrades buts its a myth that fighter aircraft are 'stuffed' with super 'high tech' systems generations ahead of what civies can access. By the time most planes hit mass production they have been in development for 20-30 years! and their tech levels are at best compatible with civilian gear which doesn't face those kind of lead up times. Its how those systems are integrated that make the planes so effective. Its also why the planes need constant upgrades. No-one in command of the US or any other world Defense forces has publicly acknowledged that UFO's are alien space ships. Again - they may or may not be real i.e technically advanced devices of alien design. They may also be undefined senor ghosts of some type. Show me the physical evidence and your home and hosed - until that occurs any discussion about the nature of UFOs is just speculation.
The evidence for these craft already exists but you cannot accept fact So you demand a downed ufo or their isnt evidence . That is like demanding a piece of the sun for eevidence because instruments and eyeball observation isnt sufficient. So silly.
I simply require physical evidence. Not eye witness testimony (often brought forward years if not decades after the alleged events concerned occurred) not long range - and until quite recently blurry video/photographic evidence but physical evidence of contact by alien technology with the Earth. Not people the planet. And no I don't require a crash sight, I don't require the dead bodies of alien pilots and I don't require working pieces of advanced alien technology. Once again I refer you to Locard's principle. One landing sight where trace trace alien DNA (or its analogue) would do. Samples of 'alien' bacteria shed by visitors or their equipment would be nice (our probes take microbes to other planets despite our best efforts). Samples of the metal alloys/ceramics/plastics used in the construction their landing gear/hull and left in the soil would suffice. Anything physical. So away you go and get me some.
Interesting perspective. . .but I disagree. I am familiar with your logic. I held firmly to it myself for several decades. Four different things changed my mind. First, there are several good sources of video sequences showing UFOs on Youtube. Some are clearly man made objects or weather phenomenon, or astronomical objects. But there are a few--perhaps 5%--that don't lend themselves to critical explanation. Those are the interesting ones. Keep William James' powerful rule in mind when examining these videos. He said: "It takes only one white crow to prove not all crows are black." In essence, it takes only one real ExtraTerrestrial craft to prove they're here & no longer a figment of our imagination. Second, are crop circles. I know it's widely claimed that they're all man made. But even a little deeper research into them discloses they have properties that are resistant to explanation, & certainly not the result of simple stomping or flattening of grasses or grains. In fact, there are properties that totally defy human explanation. Based on those facts, I'm totally convinced they are produced by real ETs (ExtraTerrestrials). Third, are the Nazca Mummies. There were five of them discovered initially--more now. They were discovered in 2018, I believe, & have been subjected to some rigorous medical& technical tests, including Carbon 14 dating, CT scans, X-rays, & DNA analysis. The results are that they are not only not human, but almost 80% of their DNA fails to match with any known DNA on Earth. The main researcher on the project himself, concluded they are Extra Terrestrial. Naysayers claim they are hoaxes built from body parts from a variety of normal animals & humans, but the complexity & convincing structural integrity of the bodies would be impossible to create that way by anyone, even an expert. Plus, the Carbon 14 ages, measured in 3 or 4 different labs in different countries, all confirm same age dates from different body parts, assuring they weren't put together from different animals or humans as a hoax. They are real. And, they are here. Their C14 dates of 1200 & 800 years ago, prove ETs were here a millennia ago. Other evidences indicate longer. Crop circles demonstrate they're still here today. Fourth, were my own personal sightings. My spouse & I, along with 2 friends (a married couple), visited a location known for UFO sightings. Around 10 pm, we spotted a suspicious star-like object hovering in the constellation Cygnus. We used a laser pointer to flash dashes toward it, & got flashes back in response several times over a 20 minute period. After that time, it gradually faded into invisibility. Not long after that (same night) we spotted what appeared to be two satellites moving toward each other from nearly opposite sides of the sky. They converged over our heads, & at the instant of closest approach, the object on the Western side suddenly stopped, hovered motionless for a few seconds, then dropped another craft from itself (star-like in appearance), which descended beneath the former craft a short distance. Both hovered there together for a few seconds, then the newer of the two suddenly shot off toward the western horizon like a bullet, disappearing beyond that horizon within about 1 second. All four of us let out loud, simultaneous gasps as it happened. We all saw it. There was no room for doubt as we discussed it together driving home. Add to the above the fact that most Native American tribes have legends of ETs descending from the skies, living with them for extended periods, & teaching them many new things to improve their lives. The TV series, Ancient Aliens, does a pretty good job covering this possible evidence for their long-term presence. While I don't believe all they say is accurate or even true, there are aspects or portions of their coverage that is. We have a long way to go to really understand the topic in any detail. Lastly, the speed of light limitation on interstellar travel is real. There is no rational way around it if we limit our travel to our familiar 4 dimensions of space time (our Universe). The solution would have to be some form of trans-dimensional travel, where one could leave our known physical universe, travel into a parallel reality, traverse the interstellar distances there somehow, then re-enter our physical universe in the vicinity of our desired destination. In such a scenario, time & space would both become irrelevant, & fast travel to various stars scattered at random distances throughout the galaxy, or wider, could be possible. I suspect that's the way ETs do it.
It's here. I suggest you visit the Gaia media station, & look up the Nazca Mummies. In spite of some dedicated naysayers who want to discredit the scientific studies done so far, these five corpses are real. And, they aren't from Earth. The Gaia station itself does a good job detailing the medical, scientific & lab studies on the mummies done so far. The results are staggering. The naysayer's claim of it being a hoax is both false & impossible. The mummies were dated in four separate labs in different countries, all totally unknown to each other. Yet, their results were all in agreement. Carbon 14 dates for two different mummies ranged from 1200 yrs old on one, to just under 800 years old for the other. DNA matching revealed that only about 20% of their DNA matched any known Earth life form. That means they aren't from Earth at all.
Evidence already exist but you demand much more . Even when our military would use the evidence on par with ufo evidence to shoot down a Russian bomber. Your excessive demand for more evidence is unreasonable and borders on the irrational . The only question is who made them and what in hell are they doing here cruising around unimpeded in our skies? And they aint talking. Clearly our knowledge is so limited and lacking in understanding reality Yet the evidence has proven these craft exist. Any reasonable person who is acutely aware of the prolific evidence doesnt require even more evidence. It would be nice but not required to determine existence. This ufo deal has created intellectual blocks in far toi many people .You can watch that happen going back decades . The ridicule of little green men. The position media has taken for decades with the wink and chuckle .
And this is exactly correct. Most people really have no idea how long our equipment takes to develop. initiated when JFK was President, first tested when Ford was President, and first fielded when Reagan was President. The aircraft known as the F-117 first started as a proposal for aircraft under President Nixon, and scale models were first tested under President Ford. The first test flight was under President Carter, it became operational in the first Reagan Administration, and was revealed to the public in the last year of the Reagan Administration. This is actually fairly typical, and the F-117 was a rush program. And an interesting side note, a lot of UFO reports were written off when the F-117 and B-2 were revealed to the public. This is not unusual, as these were "black" projects. So even though the Air Force knew exactly what they were, they just said they were UFOs because they were sightings of aircraft that were still top secret.
6) they are too narcissistic to care about us so they are waiting our complete conversion to narcissism then we can be friends. Excuse me, time for another selfie.
They are human. Peru has done extensive DNA studies and been releasing them for decades. But the fact is that there is just so much money to be made by fooling people that this kind of nonsense continues. Remember, this kind of garbage first became popular when Swiss author Erich von Daniken wrote the 1968 book "Chariots of the Gods?". Which was then made into a 1970 movie. And it is all a hoax by a scammer. Born in 1935, he first sentenced for theft in 1954. Then in 1964 for fraud and embezzlement. Then after he wrote the book he was once again arrested and convicted for fraud and embezzlement. Then again in 1970 for fraud, embezzlement, and forgery. Oh, and most of the book were based on a 1960 French book. Which was largely nonsense and based upon Lovecraftian beliefs. This is the guy that made popular the "alien mummies" nonsense. And he got fairly rich off of it, and stopped scamming and stealing from employers and investors and instead just scammed the general public. And all of these nonsense sources continue to do the exact same thing. From David Wolf on up. But people keep giving them money to be lied to, so I find it hard to blame them. They literally found free money, because as a famous sage once said "There's a sucker born every minute".
Since ETs have been here for centuries or millennia without taking over, I have to conclude they aren't motivated to do so. That pretty well means they aren't aggressive or a threat. From that, we can safely assume they are friendly. Many Native American tribes have legends of ETs descending from the skies, living among them, & teaching them many things to improve their lives. If ETs wanted to take over the Earth, they could have done so long ago. Why would they wait until we had weapons that could endanger them? No, they are peaceful. I feel they want us to join them in the interstellar community of federated planets, but they need us to abandon our use of war before we are acceptable to them, or that community.
Are you part of the naysayers, spreading doubt for a spectacular discovery that would potentially change our global world view? The Nazca Mummies were discovered in 2017 or 2018, & were studied by professional medical & scientific persons. Your accusations above happened far too early to be applied to these mummies. Lab specimens were sent to various labs scattered across Europe & America, without letting any lab know where other specimens were sent, so to avoid any covert communication among those labs to pollute the lab results. The Nazca Mummies can't be man made for two reasons. First, they are between 800 & 1200 years old, based on C14 dating. That can't be faked. Second, the DNA matches failed to find any match at all with ANY Earthbound species for about 80% of the Nazca Mummies' DNA. DNA can't be faked, so it has to be real. If you believe the hogwash in your post, then I'm sorry for you. You're missing out on possibly the most important scientific discovery of human history. If you are part of the ongoing attempt to discredit this fabulous study, for whatever reason, then shame on you. We live in a time of transition, but soon contact between us & ETs will be open knowledge by & for everyone.
Spreading doubt? This is a science thread, not one for conspiracy theories or pseudo-science. Everything I have said is true, feel free to look it up. The man that started this nonsense is a multiple convicted felon, in multiple countries. He was a scam artist of the first degree, and made a lot of money by scamming the general public after he got caught so many times scamming his employers. There is no "discredit", it is fact. But please, feel free to prove me wrong. Give me a single source that says that Daniken was not a convicted felon, who was convicted multiple times of fraud. Give me a single reputable source that confirms your or any other claims. Yea, you can't do it. You can only link to nonsensical sources that provide no claims, they only spout off coprolite. But as I say many times, I do not even bother to respond to the mentally damaged in here. I post for those that might somehow think they are making sense. As a challenge to them to do their own research. To use cognitive thinking and try to discern content from coprolite. There is no "discovery". They are no more "aliens" than the Kayan people.
Well this is pure conjecture . I would never commit to saying they are ETs. That would require more evidence than the evidence that superior technology craft exist. All that is a fact is that these craft exist. And untouchable by our tech
And a 30 second Google search reveals?????? https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/08/how-to-fake-an-alien-mummy/535251/ https://www.livescience.com/62045-alien-mummies-explained.html https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-mummy-peru/ Do I really need to go on? And please for the love of God don't start quoting Erich Von Danican. One last time - some hard scientific evidence from reputable scientific sources.
The lab results prove you wrong. You can't fake C14 or DNA lab results like the ones that came back from samples from those mummies. It's not even possible. They are NOT human. They are NOT hoaxes. They are real. Do what you tell me to do. Stop looking at the conspiracy theories or pseudo-science, & look at the lab results instead. Follow your own advice.
I understand your reluctance. I shared your skepticism for most of my life. I have described in former posts what happened to change my mind. But, I'm now convinced. If you or anyone can come up with a VIABLE alternative explanation for UFOs or crop circles, then I'm totally open to them. But right now, I know of none.
I read or scanned all three of your article links. The first was the most detailed. The others seemed less fact based & more ideologically motivated. But all are part of a growing anti-scientific, anti-intellectual media savvy group, who oppose any new discoveries that pose a threat to their Homo-Sapien superiority complex. To prove the Nazca Mummies are real, true scientists are expected to rise to a high, & ever more demanding series of scientific standards. To "prove" the Nazca Mummies are a hoax, the detractors only have to implant doubt about the scientific methods being used, or the individuals involved in the study itself. They aren't required to "prove" any of their allegations are actually true. In our current environment where facts are no longer regarded as sacrosanct, & lies or falsehoods dominate the public media, I, and anyone who values the truth, is left in limbo. I watched the entire series of videos provided by the Gaia station, & was immensely impressed by the scientists involved, the care they took in their study of the mummies, & the safeguards they put in place to avoid polluting the results. They used dating & DNA labs scattered around the world, & told none of them about the others, to assure there was no sharing of information during the testing phase that could corrupt the results. Much of the so-called "evidence" presented by the detractors, is based on some alleged failed hoaxing attempts by some of them in the past. Again, sowing doubt, but not in any concrete way, connecting that past to the present situation. In addition, your articles based their entire thesis on the one mummy named "Maria." But Maria was only one of two more human-like mummies found. There were three very non-human, reptilian-like mummies found too, and they were so very different it's hard to recognize how any faker could use human or even animal body parts to construct such an entity as a hoax. One of the reptilian mummies was found to have three eggs inside her. One of the eggs showed a fetus growing inside, using CT scanning technology. How could anyone fake such entities in such detail? I know many people are simply incapable of accepting the growing possibility that humans aren't the only life form in the Universe. Fewer are capable of accepting the very real possibility that many Extraterrestrial life forms might be more advanced than we are. I understand how & why members of these groups would do anything they can to discourage accepting scientific studies that might prove such outside lifeforms existed. But I have always been excited by the new discoveries of science & the possibility of Extraterrestrial communities, cultures, worlds, etc., that we might someday join with in some meaningful way. I find the articles you cited above lacking in real evidence, but strong in contempt & malicious gossip. If you have the right to demand open scientific proof from scientists that these mummies are real, then I have the same right to demand some kind of hard proof be offered by those detractors that some of their claims of fakery are actually true. They must go beyond simply planting doubt thru attacking the scientist's reputations. Even if those charges were accurate, that in no way proves the science wrong, or the mummies hoaxes. Demand the same level of proof from the detractors that you expect from the scientists, & we will all be better served by the outcome, whatever it may be.
Then prove it by giving us a reputable and verifiable reference to this. Not just somebody with a pseudoscience blog they publish in their mom's basement. But no, you can't do that. I have seen others point you to some that are which say you are wrong, and you reject them all and simply label them as "detractors". But as I said, it does not matter. I expect nothing but you except more bloviating. Oh, and nothing proves me wrong, because everything you keep claiming is a lie and fraud. PT Barnum would have loved you. Let me know when you find the Great Egress.
The C14 dating & DNA matching labs who did the testing on the Nazca Mummies wouldn't appreciate your comments here. They are reputable labs.
