Does the Reality of Global Warming Burn Your Arse?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course the hockey stick agrees with similar reconstructions. But there are hundreds of papers showing that the MWP was warmer than today.
     
  2. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No it hasn't, except in urban heat islands where the increasing prevalence of air conditioning dumps more heat into the local atmosphere.
    How much more common is air conditioning?
    There will always be record highs; that's part of the mathematics of statistical variation. Even if temperature only rises 0.1C/century, you can expect record highs, especially when the temperature record is not very long, less than 200 years.
     
  3. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, that is an absurd non sequitur fallacy. You could with equal "logic" claim that because human fishing technology did not exist 1Mya, sharks now are not similar to sharks then.
    Obviously they are doing it for money, status, etc., not to starve oil exporting countries. It's the people who PAY them who want to starve oil exporting countries. OBVIOUSLY. Don't be obtuse.
    No, in order to get the money and prestige that their paymasters, who DO want to starve oil-exporting countries, offer them.
    The best explanation I have come up with is that major oil exporting countries -- Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, etc. -- are perceived (accurately, IMO) as being threats to American interests. By reducing demand for oil, a few billion CIA dollars -- a vast fortune in a small field like climatology -- spent on anti-CO2 nonscience can deprive those countries of hundreds of billions in oil revenue. Money well spent.
    They mostly just go along with it because they can't take the risk of resisting.
     
  4. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Air conditioning isn't the cause of urban heat islands. That's an easily falsified hypothesis because the effect is greater at night vs. day and winter vs. summer. UHI is caused by the bulk thermal properties of materials common in dense urban areas, albedo differences, lack of evapotranspiration, enhanced thermal absorption, and modification of the planetary boundary layer of the atmosphere. Waste energy does contribute, but it is a secondary source being an order of magnitude less in its effect than the other reasons mentioned. UHI is largely a land use phenomenon and is itself an anthroprogenic effect just on a local scale instead of global.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  5. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and there are many that suggest the MWP was not a global phenomenon. Personally, I think the MWP was a global phenomenon. There's enough evidence to suggest that it is more likely than not. Even Mann's own later work show an even strong signal for the MWP and LIA than his original 1998-99 work. Tree ring growth to temperature models are limited and don't fully capture the magnitude of changes. A more recent example of this is that of the modern era in which the model used to map growth rates to temperatures works in the past but breaks down in the present. This is called the tree ring divergence problem. Ironically it's believed that there is an anthroprogenic element to this change in growth behavior.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  6. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the book "Hiding the Decline" is all about this divergence problem and the deceptive way in which the IPCC mixed models and data to get rid of the MWP. Mann's hockey stick was the "evidence" they were looking for. Unfortunately it is bogus. The entire premise that tree ring growth could be used as a proxy for temperature is ridiculous.
     
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  7. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Air conditioning is a part of that. If you want to see how people react to a temperature that is 1 - 2 deg F higher than the global average spend some time in a city. And why is it good policy to reduce economic growth with no significant effect on global temperature resulting in a reduced access to air conditioners by the low income quintiles ??
     
  8. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do these charts end at 2000 ??
     
  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    It's one cause, obviously, and one that has increased markedly in the last 60 years.
    No it's not, because it isn't false, it's true.
    LOL! Because heating is cheaper than A/C for a given temperature differential, and most of the world's population that can afford heating and A/C lives in places where it is too cold much more often than too hot. Duh. So for a given level of temperature differential, people are much more likely to be using heating than A/C. See how easily I always prove AGW screamers haven't thought through the logic of their claims?
    You again reconfirm the ignorance of AGW screamers. Look at satellite pictures of the earth. Cities are almost always far LIGHTER in color than the surrounding countryside. That means their albedo is HIGHER, which would REDUCE the UHI.
    According to AGW screamers, that is... Can you provide a credible source for this claim?
    Right. And it is far from being accurately accounted for in AGW screamers' falsification of the instrument temperature record.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  10. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Especially given that CO2 is plant food, so that increased CO2 is interpreted as increased temperature!
     
  11. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Because they ignore the fact that the Southern Hemisphere is 90% ocean, the Northern only half ocean. Ocean has far greater heat capacity than land, so any solar-forced temperature variation is giong to be much greater in the Northern Hemisphere.
    CO2 is tree food! Duh.
     
  12. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And that precipitation has a much stronger effect on growth than temperature.
     
  13. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reality or simply political BS???????????
     
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    And is only very weakly related to it in any given location (globally the relation is very strong, which is why warm periods were called, "optimums" before the term was ruled politically incorrect).
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And before Mann’s bogus hockey stick.
     

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