DoJ attorney tells appeals court the government can kill US citizens without judicial review

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Horhey, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

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    I remember liberals defending Obama when he established this precedent. Even if you trust a particular President with dictatorial powers you may not trust his/her successor with them.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't the Trump administration saying this. It was just a desperate lawyer.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is legal precedent set by Obama & Co. Trump followed suit with his killing of Soleimani in Baghdad. De Facto precedent.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Soleimani wasn't a US citizen. He was an enemy of the U.S. Killing enemies is a very old precedent to be sure.
     
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  5. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nonetheless it was an extrajudicial killing, an assassination just like Khashoggi. Which passport he carried changes nothing.
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It does in the eyes of the law.
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    To borrow from Dickens, the law, sir, is an ass.

    Real events in this country going back years show Dickens to have been right. The actions of Obama, Trump and many others have shown Dickens quip to be most accurate.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But if assassinating the enemies of your nation isn't a problem, what did Soleimani do wrong? What's the difference between him and the people who killed him?
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the DOJ believes Trump can kill someone on 5th Ave for any reason he wants and get away with it? is that what this is about?
     
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It is far far better than the lack of law.
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm going with St. Paul in Corinthians II, the spirit of the law gives life, the letter of the law gives death.

    You may certainly rationalize the scofflaw attitudes and actions of those inside the Beltway as you need to, but the facts show that the rule of law in this country has been dead for decades. The US kills and invades and overthrows legitimate governments as it pleases. You may deny or rationalize that as you must, but the facts are the facts.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I'm not religious so I'll leave that one to you.

    Can you quote that law that bans invading and overthrowing governments in other countries? I'm not aware of one.
     
  13. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    There's a huge difference between "enemies of a nation" and "enemies of a regime".
     
  14. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    EO 12333 but it only forbids assassinating leaders of other nations.
     
  15. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That sounds like the difference between "terrorists" and "freedom fighters" to me. I've no doubt the Iranians could see it (or spin it) the same way but with the labels reversed.
     
  16. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    You've obviously never lived in a country run by a repressive regime. Citizens of former communist countries in Eastern Europe, for instance, hated their respective regimes with a passion, but didn't hate their own nations.

    Lebanese citizens hate both the Hezbollah and the Iranian regime that supports the terrorists, but don't hate the Lebanese or the Iranian nation.

    As I said, there's a huge difference between "enemies of a regime" and "enemies of a nation", notwithstanding deceitful attempts to spin and label. The Iranian regime can spin and reverse labels until their heads explode, that still won't make their version valid.
     
  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Under Title 18 of the USCode, here is a good place to start: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441

    Hopefully a good presumption, I presume you are familiar with Article VI of the Constitution regarding the role of treaties we are signatory to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You may consider invading an enemy country as a war crime but the U.S. government doesn't. I view it as a sometimes necessary response to a country that makes itself an enemy.

    Of course. I'm not aware of the U.S. having invaded a country with which we have treaty.
     
  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Likely because you've never read treaties like Geneva Convention and associated agreements.

    You don't understand that we have entered into treaties that prohibit military aggression. Read up and inform yourself. When we have committed military aggression we have violated treaties and our own founding document. That's why we are perceived as a criminal organization--we've done it many times over many decades.
     
  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Tell me, which countries with treaties with the U.S. have been invaded by the U.S. I am still offended by your claim to be an American.
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am glad that you are offended that I am an American. I must admit that often I am embarrassed to be an American, but the actions of whistleblowers tend to restore my faith in the American spirit. Snowden, Binney, Kiriakou, Rowley, Ellsberg and so many more are true American heroes.

    As to which countries have been invaded by US agents, the list of those not invaded by US agents would probably be a shorter list. Virtually all of Central and South America.
     
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I have great respect for Americans but you are not one. You are a propagandist.

    When did we invade central and south america?
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are beautifully well indoctrinated. :lol:
     
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think you had an answer.
     
  25. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is impossible to have normal question and answer discussions with humans in denial of facts.
     

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