Don't forget to vote.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, May 21, 2017.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think May has made an enormous error of judgment by calling the election then upsetting pensioners (her main voting base), coming up with ridiculous ideas such as 'school breakfasts', up-grading a defence system known as Trident which will never be used in anger, and increasing overseas aid most of which will end up in a Swiss bank account when our own infrastructures are crumbling and social services/NHS are in melt-down and the police totally useless. I once scoffed at the very notion that Corbyn would ever walk through the door of Number 10, now I'd even bet he will. Anyhoo, a plague on both their houses so far as I'm concerned; I've now excluded myself from the democratic process because it has become a farce. I mean 'Prime Minister Corbyn'? That nearly as preposterous as 'Prime Minister Johnson' would have been.
     
  2. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    May IS an enormous error of judgement...only bettered in incompetence/arrogance by her representative at the head of the Tory party in Scotland...who appears to have two "Scottish" policies in her "regional manifesto" to gain the Scottish vote...viz....1).No 2nd independence referendum (which was the only policy in her local election manifesto, btw)....and....2) that the SNP will use its devolved powers to protect Scotland from her party's brutal cuts....she'll make sure of that. You couldn't make it up!

    Up here in Scotland...we aren't fighting the General Election...we are fighting a "We Unionists don't want a second referendum and we want rid of the SNP" election, which has little to do with UK wide politics...so both parties in Scotland are telling their voters to vote tactically...not to elect the government in Westminster that they think will do the least damage to the UK economy and the lives of the whole population of the UK...but to get rid of the SNP....so we have Ruthie telling everybody to vote Tory to get rid of the SNP......and Kez telling her demography to Labour except in constituencies, like the one I'm in, where the Tory is best-placed to beat the SNP. Basically...both are fighting this GE on a platform of a protest vote against the SG elected just last year. Oh...and the LibDems are at it as well...vote LibDem to get rid of the SNP. There is even a wheel to let you know which unionist party to vote for in each constituency to accomplish their only real aim in Scottish political life, regardless of type of election. You couldn't make it up!

    And the Unionist Parties in Scotland have the brass neck to say that the SNP makes everything about Independence..when in actual fact...it is the Unionist Parties (and the media) which are obsessing about it...while the SNP are simply trying to do what they believe is the best they can for Scotland until the time is right to have another Independence referendum. Given that, when they thought winning an independence referendum would be a shoo-in, to the extent that Holyrood and Westminster, from 2007 and the election of a minority SNP Government,until the signing of the Edinburgh Agreement in 2012, resounded to a chorus of "Bring it on!"......it begs the question as to why they are now so determined not to have another one that it has overshadowed, for them, any attempt to persuade the Scottish public of the benefits of voting for the policies they would prefer to see implemented over the whole UK.

    If I was a voter in England....I'd be voting Labour....not because I am particularly left-wing, although Labour isn't anything resembling the Socialism of the post-war years nowadays to be considered particularly left-wing now anyway...but because I think the Tory Party no longer even makes any pretence to care about anyone or anything but enriching themselves, their "peers" and their donors. Any party which preaches austerity...but only for those in receipt of welfare payments, working in public services, in traditionally lower-paying jobs etc...the very people who spend pretty much every penny they get in the local economy...and at the same time, for those more on their wavelength, not plugging tax loopholes/making real efforts to catch those who promote them or use them, subsidising companies to pay crap wages, giving themselves 10% pay rises when other public services are capped at 1%, and every other policy which has increased the wealth at the top...and increased poverty at the bottom, even among those working....is lying through their teeth when it talks about "A stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain that works for everyone, not just a privileged few"...because I do not for a nanosecond believe that an ideological "free market" leopard can, will or wants to change its spots...whatever it produces in the way of pre-election sound-bites.
     
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  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just to add to what you said Oddquine, Wings over Scotland have a good page of their tweets fighting over who is 'the only one' which can 'save Scotland from the SNP'

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/this-wheels-on-fire/

    But if he is right and they are using the same tactical voting system as they did last time, well maybe not that much to be bothered about.

    Meanwhile James Kelly is trying not to get himself excited into believing there is a tiny possibility that we could end up with a hung Parliament.
    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/finally-election-explodes-into-life-as.html

    If May does not pull this off with a good majority can she really continue as PM? - What an ego. All about her. Hopefully her and Ruth can disappear together. ;)
     
  4. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anything worth going to the polls for here.

    Yawnfest.
     
  5. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do you think Manchester's terrorist attack will make Theresa May a shoo in?
     
  6. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I think Brexit makes her a shoe in.
    As long as she keeps that high on the agenda and the others all seek to overturn it, she wins.

    As disunited as the UK is on Brexit, it is the single most nationally unifying policy of them all.
    Lifelong Labour supports voting Tory because of Brexit.

    It's a shoe in. She called this election on her own terms.

    Manchesters terrorist attack? Just another terrorist attack.
    Not the first, won't be the last.

    Can't see it making a difference to any vote. No one votes Labour on defence. No one thinks the govt can stop terrorism.
    Not everything in life is under their control. Much as they would wish it all to be.
     
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  7. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I vote in a Labour safe seat, which is 'a waste of time' since I vote Conservative.
    I vote regardless though, even if a person I don't want always wins.


    You get 2 types of Labour.

    Weak and pathetic; Jeremy Corbyn, or
    Untrustable and shifty; Tony Blair...
    The MP for my area is a Tony Blair anti Corbyn type Labour MP.

    It's sad really there is no political opposition in the UK.
    Labour are worse since their internal battle makes them a party divided and their leader a joke who should stop being such a communist bastard and IRA sympathiser.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Don't trust anyone who wants to nationalise anything.
     
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  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Me either.

    Not a good look.

    However, it played well with my "Labour" housemate. And a few others I've heard.
    I call him Labour he has been up to now. Voting Tory. Blimey.
     
  10. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Corbyn is a Trotskyist.
    Abbott is a Maoist.

    They will deliberately fumble Brexit. A bad deal is better than no deal for them, so the EU will make ridiculous demands.

    A Labour victory is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
     
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    You know what you said is a big waste of your efforts (sorry) considering you're talking about Labour having a chance of winning this thing.

    Labour aren't going to win... It's sad really, but the truth is, there is no leadership in the UK.

    Theresa May never won the public vote, the PM who did - quit, and he beat Gordon Brown barely having to share power with a Liberal Democrat at first after Gordon Brown resigned when no one got a majority in 2010.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  12. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A negative result was the prediction for the Trump campaign, and about the unexpected result of the Brexit vote? Corbyn's 'Motherhood and apple pie', and 'jam tomorrow' rhetoric could well work. Jesus, what a turn-up for the books it would be if he does win? :eyepopping:
     
  13. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's how majoritarian democracy works. The party appoints their leader. If you have squabbles with this system I can sympathise, but that doesn't make May's term any less legitimate.

    Labour are almost certainly not going to win, I agree, but stranger things have happened.

    Labour is stuck between the corporatist neocon Labour right and the outwardly Communist labour left. No hope, no chance.
     
  14. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Mrs May's put herself up for the public vote when she didn't have to. So she has addressed that one well. Points for integrity scored.

    I think if he wins, he gets murdered by an Ulster Unionist and we all clap.

    With the best will in the world, he might be very good for the Labour party right now, (and that is my honest belief) but he will never make a good PM.
    I can't see the people accepting him.

    Simply put, if he is PM, I don't have to obey any laws or pay any taxes and nor does anyone else.
    What's he going to do? Cry to Gerry Addams about me?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  15. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of the last 5 PMs we've had, tell me who was 'a good one'? I can't think of a good one since The Blessed Margaret.
     
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I don't like any of them obviously.
    That is my default position with politicians.

    But none of them actually sided with our enemies in war.

    It's not something I can get past.

    Those people who damned near killed me, and mutilated and murdered so many thousands of us, he supported them. Was all matey with them. Honoured them. FFS. Honoured them. Words fail me.
    He has zero chance of leading this country. None. zero. nada.

    Not even if he wins the election. None. He may be able to lead the fifth column but the rest of us have a loyalty to each other.
    I mean it mate. We really do.

    This guy is deeply anti-social at heart. He cannot lead a people he hates. They won't accept him.
     
  17. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You'll be subject to the legislature the same as the rest of us; if you don't follow the law and pay taxes you'll be getting a visit from the bailiffs. You'll soon conform then?
     
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely.

    I scare the living **** out of bailiffs.
    Make armed police go white as a sheet.
    Riot squads? Very polite to me. (such a mighty legend in my own mind!)

    Not to mention I'm a little bit harder to find than most. I live off the grid.

    I'm as subject to legislature as everyone else. Which isn't very much at all.
    We are governed by consent. You simply don't have the man power to stop a rebellion.

    Where were the bailiffs in the Poll Tax rebellion? Very busy I expect.
    But we did not consent and could not be governed.

    And that is how it will be for Mr Corbyn as PM.
    He may pass legislation and I may ignore it.

    Everybody breaks the law. Speeding, spliffing, drinking before you are 18. Sneaking into the cinema at 14, non payment of taxes.
    Like Judge Dredd says, everybody breaks the law.

    No biggie.
    That's how bad laws get changed.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
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  20. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good for you then. Let me know how you get on? :mrgreen:
     
  21. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    This is the way I have always lived my life.
    So far so good.

    If you don't harm people no law will ever be applied to you except a bad one.

    And a bad one, it is our civic duty to break.
    .
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
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  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A YouGov poll has the Tories on 43% and Labour on 38%


    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/disaster-for-tories-as-up-to-date.html

    It was done after the terror attack. However it is very possible that the next polls may see the Tories widening their lead again. The terror attack of course rescued May from her UTurn, from people laughing at her 'strong and stable' saved the Tories from damage of her trying to make it a contest between her and Corbyn. Instead it got her into an authority position and shut down politics for two days when she definitely would have wanted it shut down -that plus troops on the streets may well see them pull back. We shall see.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
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  23. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nothing like a war or a terror threat to nudge things along.
     
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  24. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I hope they have the good sense to keep this one out of their political ambitions.

    Vultures who prey on the misery of others, not a good look.
     
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many people just think the timing was fortunate for the Tories - that in no way is to take away from the attack, the lives ruined and so on. However I seem to remember reading somewhere that after the attack there was this media attack on Corbyn claiming he supported the IRA. While there is no question that this could not have happened at a more fortuitous time for May, there also is no question that the British state had anything to do with it - and we are fortunate in that our services are very good at stopping them - not least because of the information they receive from Muslims. It does not however mean that politicians will not use them to their advantage as was done in trying to present Corbyn as a terrorist supporter. (I did not read that, just heard it), That is current politics.

    Craig Murray has an interesting article on this. He speaks first of all about the reason for them believing that we are still in a critical state is a) that the bomb was too sophisticated for the known person to have produced on his own and that b) ISIS attacks usually come in bundles. He does however believe it was timed to affect the election. Interesting read

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/that-critical-threat/
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017

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