Earth just recorded its hottest 12-month streak (November 2022-October 2023). Analysis using Climate

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bowerbird, Nov 12, 2023.

  1. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Excellent, as the planet warms, we will get less self reliant on home central heating, thus saving the planet from some impending doom. Sounds like a win win.
     
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  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Humans always thrived during interglacials when the planet was warmer. That was what the planet was like when we evolved in the first place.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in your cite that would suggest that my point isn't totally valid.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I pointed out that the laws of thermodynamics are sensitive to whether the system is closed or open.

    But, the bigger issue is that I accept the analysis of scientists who have spent decades working on climate related issues.

    It's ridiculous to suggest that anyone who accepts science must get a PhD in the field being discussed.
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it's a fallacy only under certain conditions.

    If the "authority" to which one is appealing has no justification for being and authority, then it becomes a false argument.

    Suggesting that ANY appeal to qualified scientific analysis is a fallacy makes no sense AT ALL. For instance, there is no justification for appealing to YOUR analysis in the face of the world wide study of climate by scientists of every discipline.

    You are free to falsify what is found through scientific analysis, of course. But, you can't do that on a social board such as this. Scientists aren't watching this board with that in mind.
     
  6. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In fact, co2 was getting dangerously low. Co2 is plant food, once you get down to 150ppm/180ppm, plant life starts dying. Dinosaurs thrived in co2 levels of some 4,800ppm co2 until an asteroid sealed their fate. Where did all the co2 go? The crustaceans/shell fish absorbed co2 for the their shells, thus the limestone rocks. So man increasing co2 probably saved life on earth and produce grown in greenhouses tends to have co2 pumped in to create a 1,100ppm+ co2 level.

    All the political climate hysteria is for control and tax purposes.
     
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, ancient times faced different issues.

    I'd point out that this information concerning ancient history came from the study of climate.

    Today, our oceans are acidifying, as well as warming - horrible for crustaceans. The result is a serious problem for sea life.

    I'm glad life on Earth was "saved" by whatever means, but now the issue has to do with 8 Billion humans who have serious needs. Adaptation will be seriously expensive. For example, we don't have evolution helping with that. Plus, in ancient times problems could be solved by movement of populations - and we have a presidential candidate who wants to shoot those who attempt that - not entirely unlike some other countries.
     
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  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL.

    Of course there is.

    This is appeal to authority fallacy. Appeal to anonymous authority fallacy to be exact.

    This is not appeal to authority fallacy.

    Can you tell the difference?

    If you focused more on EVIDENCE and less on appealing to authority your posts could be taken more seriously.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yeah up until the Gulf Stream shuts down - which it has done before.. You like eating fish? We are seeing world wide bleaching of coral reefs. You like affordable food - what will happen when crop failures get worse as weather becomes more unreliable and there are more devastating floods? We are seeing this here in Aus as we face a record El Niño this year. We are preparing for a repeat of the bushfires that ripped through the country last El Niño. We are prepared to watch crops die from lack of water or be flattened by storms. We are prepared for instances like a few years back when long soaking rains over areas that do not normally see that caused a vast area of QLD to turn into a deadly swamp that trapped and killed the animals.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Only for some plants - and we will not see a CO2 level that low for centuries as the natural methods of CO2 removal take thousands of years and yes - the dinosaurs did live through that - at the poles - the tropics not so much. Plus this happened slowly enough that the ecosystem had time to adapt

    https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/g/f... Period & Early Eocene Period - Sept 2022.pdf

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eocene

    And this is the point paleoclimatology shows that with rapid shifts in climate like we are seeing now, the earth has seen mass extinction events
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Again, you point out cases of appealing to someone who is NOT an authority in the specific field in question.

    That IS an appeal to authority fallacy - a fallacy as the authority isn't actually an authority in the field in question. It's like appealing to Brad Pitt on oceanography.

    Again, refusing all authority is just plain ridiculous.
     
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  12. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No. You aren’t reading my posts. I’ll try once more.


    You are using the classic appeal to authority argument as well as the appeal to anonymous authority argument over and over. Appeal to false authority is different.

    Refusing all authority arguments is the only way to follow science. It’s the only way to be sure your beliefs/posts/opinions are based on EVIDENCE.
     
  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It actually came from studying rocks and ice cores.

    If you don't adapt to whatever impending catastrophe you're imagining, then you will no longer be part of the 8 billion.
     
  14. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All I can say is, let's wait and see if all this impending doom and gloom you talk of happens, because it wont. And yes, I like eating fish, especially trout.

    Coral reef are fine, Peter Ridd tried to explain this but his employer sacked him so they didn't get defunded for not following the climate rhetoric.

    Personally, there should be a shift back to growing food at home, planning accommodation with gardens again. More local farms, stop relying on mega farms flying crops in. If one part of the planet or country gets too windy or too wet one season, then there's no impact on the fragile climate alarmists.

    I've been on the planet for over 50 years and have never suffered from food supply disruption. Even if, say, sugar becomes difficult to source for a month or two, just means we will all still live, just some with less sugar on their cereal or in their coffee
     
  15. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Plants will adapt, always have done and will always do so. Animals and insects too, and we're just lumped in that animal group.

    If the climate is moving too fast or too slow for someone, that's their cookie. We're here on the planet for what? Up to 100 years. Those that have done geology will utterly laugh their pants off at someone saying a 100 years is a long time. Whilst the alarmists are panicking over a couple hundreds of years of recorded data, the data from millions and billions of years laughs.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Evolution takes time and ecologies are fragile.

    Look up the term “proxy data” will you. You seem not to have noticed that there is a huge field of science called paleoclimatology
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That is my point - we are seeing it here, today, in a lot of different countries
     
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    As the Earth modestly warms, crop yields increase.
    [​IMG]
    Global Temperatures vs. Global Crop Yields
    Crop production March 7, 2022
    Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach I keep reading that increasing temperatures will cause decreasing yields of our food crops, resulting in widespread hunger ... for...
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    My point is that not being allowed to appeal to authority is itself ridiculous.

    It becomes a false argument based on how that appeal is being used and who is being considered an authority.

    Discounting results of science doesn't "follow science" - it rejects science. And yes, the preponderance of science IS anonymous, as it takes an army and must include all those who challenge hypotheses. We don't trust Einstein - we trust the 100 years of daily testing of his hypotheses by scientists around the world.

    And, it's ridiculous to suggest that individuals on this board should make assumptions based on their personal perception of evidence. Evidence is collected by scientists. The last millions (or ?) years of climate record is brought to us by science. Etc. Deciding that it's valid for individuals to pick and choose what is evidence and what is NOT evidence is ridiculous.
     
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yep, that's what I pointed out.
    I like this, except that it is WE who must adapt.

    Earth's population today depends on systems that have been developed over time. If/when those systems are degraded, there is significant impact.

    It's not like what our ancient forebears faced, as they could simply move or die. Today, we don't like either of those options.
     
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  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ummmm - really? And you know this how? Btw i thought you said proxy data was unreliable? How come then you accept there were interglacial periods?
     
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  22. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most are adapting, the alarmists are not. The way most are adapting is.....by carrying on with life
     
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  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Can I have a real research paper please instead of an unreferenced denialist blog written by a massage therapist?
    https://www.climatechange.environme...ibuting to,that thrive in warmer temperatures
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Even scientists who doubt the severity of the rate of Earth's warming, such as Dr Judith Curry (who the right wing point to) believe we're not doing enough to prepare for the effects of warming that is progressing.

    She points out that even if the warming projections are an overestimate, the existing rate of warming shouldn't be ignored.
     

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