Education is Less Than Proficient

Discussion in 'Education' started by Opinionated Blogger, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    680
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is that the SOLE reason for tenure? :)
     
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    With some, yes, with others, no. We are better than Germany at the 4th grade level in science. Note this is at 4th and 8th grade level. Any later comparisons cannot be done fairly.

    Go to the website and look at the data.
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Tenured teachers can be fired. I know of several. I even know of one who was fired for not teaching (the rest were fired for some kind of crime committed).

    Tenure at the university level was for the reason you stated, and it far predates lower level teacher tenure.
     
  4. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If a principal is dedicated to the process, tenured teachers can be fired. The problem is most principals would rather have an incompetent certified, tenured teacher than a succession of incompetent uncertified substitutes.
     
  5. Opinionated Blogger

    Opinionated Blogger New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So you wanted to see where I got my info? Just click this link!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html
     
  6. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is no actual comparative data in that or the linked articles. I can't find what measure was used. It's essentially worthless without being able to see the scores of other countries. Also, the little data I see shows that it's on 15 yr olds. The data I showed is on younger students. I don't disagree. I think we allow this whole idea of teenaged rebellion to mess up our kids.


    http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v17/n2/full/scientificamerican0607-68sp.html
     
  7. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think there are several things that we are doing wrong.

    First and foremost, is the parents. It's not really a given that a child is expected to achieve anything in school. In fact, parents are much more concerned that a child has too much homework than that a child is not being taught to the proper skill level.

    Second, due to the structure of educational subsudies, we're in an educational race to the bottom. There is ALWAYS funding for "special needs" kids, and in most schools, very very little for the smart kids. This goes on to the regular classroom, where due to the failed system of "mainstreaming" the classroom is suposed to never surpass the ability of the dumbest kid in the room.

    Third, we spend a lot of time on fluff. We spend tons of time and money on arts and crafts, literature, and so on, which cuts time we actually need for the stuff we're behind on. We rank last in the world in maths and science, but we still spend lots of money per student on craft supplies for art classes. I think I'd rather spend the money on math books or a computer lab. Kids can make projects out of maccaroni on their own time, and most kids who like to draw can do so at home as easily as at school.

    Fourth, we seem to buy into the notion that every kid would be a good fit for 4-year unis. This doesn't happen in Europe or Asia. In Europe and in Asia, if you don't do well enough in school, you get weeded out and sent to a trade high school so that you don't slow down the progress of your brighter peers. This does a few things for both sides. First, you don't send a kid to 4-year unis when they can't handle the work, and secondly, you prevent the dumbing down of the coursework of those who can achieve that station. Further, it reinforces the idea of working hard in school and earning your place.

    Long story short, we are so worried that we might make a kid feel bad for being special needs that we teach everyone as though they have an IQ of 80. Most kids are never challenged in school because we don't demand it. We demand that special needs kids get mainstreamed into normal classrooms, yet never complain when the coursework is dumbed down to the point where American 8th graders are doing what in Europe of Japan or South Korea would be 5th grade coursework.
     
  8. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The USA should look at what other countries are doing and learn from their success and mistakes. After all, the USA is far enough behind, that it could learn a lot.

    The system of education in the USA is the problem, not the people. People can be conditioned to a system. As evident by the other countries that have better public education systems than the USA.

    My thoughts on changing the system is far beyond what Americans can accept. It involves revamping the entire education system. Let's not forget that the K through 12 public education system has no real significant impact on the adult who is employed in the real world. The K-12 is basically only important for the adult children who work the child like hours of the USA public school system with the child like challanges. Let's not forget that the public employee unions of the USA have a major impact on State politics, that the State governments, can't even make the schools districts account for the 60+% of the State's tax revenue they consume. Let's not forget that the education system in the USA is based on making money, lots of it from corporation donation, tax payers, and charity donations. Let's not forget that US Public schools and universities have their own police and laws, seperate from the general public, and they handle or coverup criminal activity on a daily basis.

    So with these general factors, you can expect that the Public schools and taxpayer funded university systems in the USA will never change. Why? because if you can't grasp the big picture and understand how culture, and behavior work, you will never come to any solution for the failure of US Public Schools. The factors that I have mentioned about the failing US school system attracts the simple, lazy, and complacent, who can't survive in the real world of competitive employment. These individuals lack the ability to make any change in the system not because they lack the skills or motivation, but the system of admin and beurocracy does not allow change. As a result, you have a complacency of workers who just do their 4 to 6 hours a day, 8 months out of a year, and wait for the next years group of kids to see if they "can make a difference". The only example they provide is to a kid who knows they can get a gravytrain job like a teacher and they will be set for life. When children become teachers and work in the public school system it is like a welfare mom raising a welfare child. A cycle of complacency, in their own little secure, safe, structured little world, with a high paying income, little hours to work, and no accountability. Plus, Union backing and they can make their own criminal laws.

    Furthermore, US Public Schools/DOE, etc., have a system that has not changed in over 100 years. Well, perhaps some small changes, but remains generaly the same, teaching the same BS brain wash crap and literature of the old days. With unions pushing for payraise and more members, you can bet that they will only become more powerfull with more wealth to push their propaganda on the ignorant taxpayer who buys into the "were doing it for the kids" BS.

    So there you have it, the system of public schools in the USA is a failure due to it's "too big to fail" power over the government and the taxpayer who funds this massive monkey on the back. This education system attracts lazy and simple minded people who have good intentions but like the child-like hours, and they become complacent in just making the money. After all, it beats joininfg the military, saving for college, and competing for a job in the real world. Where else can you get summer off and all the holidays and spring break, plus paid vacation and sick time and still make $40k a year? And get overtime to hang around after a full 4 hour workday and attend meetings for training, and discuss how to improve? Only in America.

    Reality is, adults get a real education once they finish that 12 years of grade school. There is more to learn after 18 years old, than there is in grade school. But as always, there are those who stop learning once they finish high school.
     

Share This Page