Eliminate Federal Department of Education

Discussion in 'Education' started by perdidochas, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    We should eliminate the Federal Department of Education. It is a waste of money and is counterproductive.

    The DOE was created in 1979. There are no educational gains in the U.S. to show since that point. Hence, it's counterproductive, and should be eliminated. State and Local DOEs/BOEs should continue, but the feds have no legitimate business in this field.


    If you go to NAEP, and look at longterm trends for 17 yr olds in reading and math, the scores are virtually unchanged. Since this is the case, why continue to waste the money?

    http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/lttdata/dataset.aspx
     
  2. LibertarianFTW

    LibertarianFTW Well-Known Member

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    $110 billion a year, I believe, wasted on this unconstitutional department. The government just loves to waste...
     
  3. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Banned

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    This money pit of regulation needs total destruction. The FEDS have no place in education. NONE.
     
  4. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I would concur. I see no benefit to a federal department to interfere in state programs.
     
  5. starbow

    starbow New Member Past Donor

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    agreed! eliminate the Dept of Education, and the Dept of Energy - both are boondoggles which do far, far more damage than good.
     
  6. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I would like to point out that if the Department of Education is eliminated that will not mean any of their employees will be unemployeed. They will simply be shifted to other existing departments or put into new departments being created. I hear the FDA already wants the Department of Education SWAT for their raw milk crusade.
     
  7. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    True, the DOE on the Fed level would just shift around other and those who have no legitemate ties to corporations will be let go and they will go back to the corporations in which they lobbied for.

    However, in the USA citizens pay way more for State run public education systems. In most states over 65% of your State tax dollars go to the public schools and state run universities. If the USA is to be saved from a total failure they should eliminate public schools and universities. Why, because the private sector meaning private schools cost less, to operate in the USA. And their outcome is better. Just ask any politician who sends their kids to private school. Why do you think that is? Reason is the public schools and their administrations are so expensive, and there is so much corruption of taxpayer money, that public shcools and their government funded unions are not able to account for the taxpayer money spent on the DOE.

    If corporations want the technology of the State funded universities, than they should pay for it. Federal and State taxpayers should not be funding State universites professors $350,000 incomes to do 1 classess a day, and pay them Millions for reasearch projects to measure speed of katsup and monkeys. The corporations who use the technology whould be paying for it. Privatize the schools.


    Can you imagine how much money that would save the USA taxpayer? Courts and police would be able to get more funding. Roads and rail would be better. Child welfare and immigration issues would be adressed. No State in the USA would be in debt if they privatized Public school.

    Only the best teachers and administrators would be hired to work under the corporations of private schools. Only the best schools would be successfull and the failures will be replaced with other competing schools. All the loser teachers and administrators in the USA would be forced to do some real work in jobs that required at least 8 hours of full time work. No more gold brickers and shamers. The Goldbrickers will be forced to shape up, no more workers comp for the malingerers and duds. No more free government cheese for the incompetent. No more Government Employees Unions to suck tax dollars for increasing membership in public schools.

    And best of all, the kids would be smarter. No longer would the USA be the Butt joke of all the emerging nations when it comes to public school education.
     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I wholeheartedly disagree with the above. I'm against federal funding for education, but I think that public schools (run by local government) are the reason for the success of our republic. I've seen the inside of schools as a teacher, a parent, a teacher's husband and an assistant principal's husband. The vast majority of school teachers are working hard at least 8 hrs a day (contract hour being 7 1/2 hrs a day) in addition to at least 5 hrs a week at home, grading and doing lesson plans.

    Private schools not run by religious organizations are more expensive than public schools. Private schools run by religious organizations are only less expensive because 1) they are supplemented by the churches as a means of propagating their faith and 2) they are supplemented by teachers willing to work for lower salaries because they are true believers.

    Non-sectarian (i.e. purely private) private schools have an average tuition of $17,316 a year (2009-2010). Public schools in 2007-2008 (lastest available) had an average cost per student of $10,441 per year.


    Private school info

    Public School info
     
  9. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    That is a great country you live in. In the USA it is different. Teachers in the USA public schools only see things from their sheltered, safe, structured, privilaged lives and most have no idea how competitive it is to work in the outside world of education. As their whole lives are privilaged and sheltered by the education system and taxpayer dollar. Their reitrements are good, and they are often from teacher families that also live the privilaged lives.

    Depending on the Country or the data you look at, the USA public school student consumes over $32,000. per year to educate. Where the private school does it for half the price and with superior outcome.

    Although their intentions are good, the once humble profession of the 19th century is still teaching the ideas of the 19th century in a 21st century world. Most public school employees focus on themselves and their jobs, and most have tenure and could care less about accountability. After all they will have a new set of puples nest year. Also, public shcools in the USA have their own law enforcement system, laws, and regulations which protect their jobs and postitions more than comply with civil laws. With their government employee unions being the largest unions in the USA, and with the most members, they always get better benifits and work conditions, and more staff for more members.

    I must contend that the best and cheepest ran schools in the USA are the private schools. Obama the priseident went to the most expensive private school in Hawaii. Many of the elite use these private schools as a grooming for successfull children. I know there are a thousand and one excuses why the private school is better and costs less. And because if you fix the problems of public schools in the USA rather than trying to get more tax payer money for the excuses, public schools might be able to compete with private schools in the uSA. But the fact is, with all the overhead, and entities and unaccounted for tax money that the massive public schools consume, it will never be better and as cheap as the private school.

    Without the privitizaton of public schools the USA as a whole will fail. right now other countries are looking in the rearview mirror and laughing at the Public school system of the USA, acknowleging and avoiding the mistakes the USA public schools are making.
     
  10. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    My post was about public schools in the U.S. (the flag in my profile is the Florida State Flag) The data in the second link is from the federal government repository for school data. The data in the first link is from an association of private schools in the U.S. Now, yes, there are systems spending $32k a year for students, but they are the exception, not the rule. The average cost per student in 2007-2008 (probably lower now, due to the economy) was $10,441 per year. That ranges from around $6500 a year per student in Idaho to $18,00 a year per student in New York.

    http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/09f33pub.pdf

    Our country was the first to implement public schools, and IMHO, they are the reason that we became a superpower.

    Private schools are more expensive than public schools in the U.S., unless the private school is supplemented by a religious group. The reason religious groups sponsor schools is to propagate their religions, and the side benefit is that when you get a group of middle-upper class students together, and have the ability to kick out bad students, you end up providing a good education.
     
  11. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Depending on the State. Private schools are cheaper to fund than Public schools. And there are fewer private schools. America had its glory days up to the early 90s in education. Today public schools are a big failure, and the rest of the world has found ways to pass the us up, and most if not all developed nations and some emerging nations have passed the uSA in public school education. And in thier countries the schools are not a huge financial burden like it is in the USA.

    The fed only spends a small amound of money to regulate general standards for the Education systems in the USA. The State governments and taxpayers pay more than half of their state budgets on public schools. That is why you cant find data on how much the States spend as a whole, is because they can't account for the Hundreds of Billions of tax dollars they consume each year. And, like All americans who are broke and owe their lives and homes and credit cards to the bank. So does the DOE in your state. They owe hundreds of millions each year on muni bonds, and are paying big intrest for shareholders like myself who risk investing private money into public schools. Basicly, us share holders own your State schools, and the people of the State are blind to it.
     
  12. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    My data showed you to be wrong. Non-sectarian (non-religious) private schools are MORE expensive than public schools. Please read the data, and don't just spout off.

    Of course you can find data on how much money is spent by schools. I showed it to you. You just refuse to look at the data.
     
  13. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Data evaluation is often manipulated, and those who benifit financially from leaning it their way will show your suppostion. But if you add in the factors of the administrative costs, infrastructure, special programs, and other tax costs like the payment of funds from DOH, the DHS, and the DDD (taxpayer funded programs) you will find the real data and costs. Student for Student cost vary from institution to program. It is the enormous cost of the added administrative functions that adds greatly to the cost for the Taxpayer.

    I have seen independent/ non DOE studies that show cost student for studed in 2009 was $37.000 per student and the most prestegious private school in Hawaii to be $15,000 per year. That was the school Obama and the president of Yahoo went to. As well as the judge on Dancing with the Stars.

    This is not spouting off, I'm giving some important data to those who lack the cognitive ability to understand how the large department of edcuation functions with taxpayer money. And, I am opening up reason for simple mided people to look harder into the propaganda data that some organizations provide.

    Let's face it data is like a turd, everyone can squeeze one out. But what is most important is how data is digested and interpreted by including how it pertains to the big picture.
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Please show the source of your $37K a student. That's about 3 times the official estimate, which sets off my B.S. detector. If not, stop mentioning it, as it's baseless. I've backed up all of my statements with consistent data.
     
  15. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I think a federal Department of Education is just as critical as a federal Department of Trash Collection, a federal Department of Noise Abatement, and a federal Department of Zoning.
     
  16. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Federal meaning the US Federal government has little to do with public school education, and little money (less than 10% of the federal budget is used on the mess we call public schools). In the USA, State governments' taxpayers pay over 65% of their tax money into puplic run State government schools. Check your US State just to see how much of your tax money goes to the public schools.

    With the Federal government cutting down on services and spending, you can bet your State government (which is not affiliated with the Federal government), will be taxing you more to pay for your State's public schools. That is the reality of Federal and State education. Some states incorporate the State funded Universities with the DOE of the State government.

    But I agree, if people think the Federal government is too involved in State run education system, than we do not need a federal government. In fact, the States' education systems do what they want ayway, and screw over the taxpaer by asking for over half of the tax money paid by taxpayers in each state.

    Just like we don't need anyone telling the taxpayer, they are getting ripped a new one. If the taxpayer is too stupid to know they are paying over 65% of their State tax money to the department of education, than they deserve to be taken advantage of.
     
  17. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Nationwide, it's about 29% (in 2008, according to Census Bureau. See Page 3 of the below link:
    http://www2.census.gov/govs/estimate/08statesummaryreport.pdf

    Please show the link for your 65% claim. I imagine it's like the rest of the figures you throw out--unsubstantiated.


    My state of Florida spends about 32% of state revenue on Education

    http://floridafiscalportal.state.fl.us/PDFDoc.aspx?ID=2310
     
  18. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Privatizeation is the only solution for the burden of State funded public education. It will free up over 65% of your State's tax money. Often we here the ramblings of the most powerfull Unions feeding us propaganda trying to increase their membership for bigger paychecks, and more retirement money. I don't buy into that propaganda, and futle statistics they toss around by claiming they need more money.
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    You mean 30% of my state tax money.

    Please stop posting mistruths.
     
  20. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    I totaly agree. the cost of dumming down the population is so great it is a threat to national security. When the Fed stops taxing and funding education more cost will go to each of the US States. And that is where the real problem is. Too much cost, not enough money. Hence, privatize the public tax funded schools and let the private sector make teachers work hard for the money. As a result only the best of the best teachers will continue to succeed, and those goldbrick lame teachers and administrators can all go fly a kite, with their excuses on why the kids can't learn. Private schools can do the job for 3x less and have better outcomes. Why because they do not have a huge administrative bureaucracy of turd ants to deal with. Talk about government waste. The DOE wastes more money in fraud and overspending than any other government entity. And they need to do away with the government funded employee unions that just get in the way of progress and suck up taxpayer money. talk about waste.
     

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