Elizabeth Warren is Still Dodging the Middle Class Tax Question

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Bluesguy, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. lpast

    lpast Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are all dodging the middleclass tax issue, its simple they cant do a single thing they want just taxing the rich. They will go after the middle class and tax them in a very big way to feed their base, anyone that works for a living that cant see through this facade truly needs to get educated fast
     
  2. rahl

    rahl Banned

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  3. StarFox

    StarFox Well-Known Member

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  4. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Ok? You can certainly choose to reject empirical fact and reality, but neither will go away because they clash with your ideology.
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then your memory is quite lacking it's how he sold it and bragged about.
     
  6. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    No, it was to my recollection refers to what he proposed, not what was passed.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is how they sold what was passed.
     
  8. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Democrats are very good at convincing people that their pie in the sky ideas can actually work well.

    Their track record tells a different story.
     
  9. GChairman

    GChairman Active Member

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    This doesnt surprise me one bit, the left including most Democrats and country club Republicans or federal politicians in general have no clue when it comes to economics

    They dont seem to understand nothing is free, someone has to pay for it
    The soviet union found out the hard way
    Cuba found out after the USSR collapsed
    East Germany found out
    North Korea ( outside of Pyongyang ) understands this
    and Mao's China knew this.

    Like Sanders , Warren and her ilk are clueless, they believe that there are enough rich people to tax to death and they will sit by and idly accept the government taking their wealth and re distributing it to some unemployed slacker proletariat

    Good luck on that one

    By the way Sweden did this in the 1980's and the rich fled , it was only when the Swedish government came to it senses and lowered taxes on the rich decades later they came back

    History doesnt lie folks
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well on top of her
    Healthcare more tax on the high earners
    Free college more tax on the high earners
    A new, unconstitutional, wealth tax on high earners
    Free this free that not ax on the high earners
    She now wants a permanent $2400 increase to SS recipients paid for by a 14% tax in guess who, the high earners.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  11. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    Taxes go up (for most incomes), premiums go down to 0, on average the change downward being more than the change when the taxes go up. Simple enough? I thought this was obvious. I'm not a warren supporter but if Warren dodged that's the real answer as a lefty. Not sure why she dodged, but as I'm hopeful she doesn't get the nom, attack, attack, attack.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  12. Plasticman

    Plasticman Member

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    I'd be more than happy to support a plan in which the increase in my taxes was offset by the elimination of my premium, but I don't find that a credible claim. Nobody knows how much I'm paying right now for a premium, certainly not Senator Warren or any other politician in DC. How do they know I'll be paying less under their plan if they don't even know what I'm paying now?

    The answer is, they don't. They're looking at averages, which hide information and don't tell the whole story. Every plan of this kind put forward by politicians is going to produce winners and losers, people who come out ahead and people who don't. Unless they can prove with math that I'm in the first group, I can't endorse any plan like this. It's nice in principle, but I need details. Are you willing to take a politician at their word? Because I'm not.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth Warren is Still Dodging the Middle Class Tax Question

    She doesn't want the public to know her promises won't happen. Sadly the public already know it.
     
  14. StarFox

    StarFox Well-Known Member

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    She is counting on the free crap class to vote for her. All those entitled kids that every day look for someone else to pay for their life styles.
     
  15. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, doesn't Sweden still have single payer? What a bunch of nonsensical BS.
    Here, have a bagel:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm on Medicare and pay premiums every month after having paid into it all my life. If premiums go to zero and everyone is on it how is it funded. And your claim that the downward being more than the change in taxes is unsupported conjecture and supposition. I remember when my premiums before Medicare were supposed to go down $2500 with better coverage. It did the opposite.
     
  17. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    When politicians dodge questions along those lines, the lack of answers speak for themselves. Not a smart move on Warrens part.
     
  18. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    How is it funded? Taxes, ie public funding.

    For one costs are lower, so existing numbers don't really help. It's obvious drug prices would substantially drop if negotiation is allowed and there is tons of evidence other prices would drop substantially as well. One big one being the deletion of some unnecessary middlemen in the game. Either way I'm of the opinion "it's time to try something different". What we have now clearly isn't working and what we had before wasn't working for much of the population either (probably the majority).

    It isn't supposition either, this has been done in the majority of western countries and all evidence shows costs as lower than our current system. This is regardless of other points like rationing. You are going to get a type of rationing in any system. I'd rather the rationing be equal when it comes to peoples lives.

    Otherwise, READ THE PLAN. It's your vote, not mine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah LOTS of taxes, HUGE taxes

    Pure speculation and ignores the consequences

    Speculation and conjecture are not evidence.


    You're just replacing them with government middlemen with their higher pay and HUGE benefits the taxpayers have to pay.

    We did with Obamacare and screwed it up royally.

    What's not working the majority are happy with their company health benefits, were happier until Obama messed it and when told they will have to pay higher taxes to get "free" healthcare the numbers that support drop even further.

    There is rationing in other countries and hidden cost. Just tell the taxpayers there is going to be a 20% VAT tax on top of the taxes they pay now.

    Neither Warren nor Sanders of Biden have a "plan" they have desires and speculation and suppositions.
     
  20. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    I wish I could copy and paste a chat conversation with a gentleman in Scotland that has been ongoing for the last week or so on a diabetes forum.

    His glucose numbers are exceeding 400, he's unable to eat and keep it down, he's almost out of insulin in trying to keep his numbers in check, but he cannot receive immediate care because he is not producing ketones yet. There is your wonderful First World Nation with single payor 'better care'.

    'Care' is not rationed in our current system, people seem to think if insurance isn't going to pay for it, they can't have it, which is unadulterated BS. If the insurance won't pay for it, you make a choice - how badly do you need the treatment, and what is it worth to you? For me, there is no question.
     
  21. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe
    Wrong
    Bad premise as it's not speculation. Being able to negotiate is going to allow at the minimum some prices to be lowered as is seen in every other major country.
    wrong,not replacing, removing
    Wrong, obamacare was a lot more of the same, it just mandated private for profit insurance.
    Wrong, the majority are unhappy we have such high costs for healthcare along and those high costs were there before obamacare. Not only that, that people were being put into debt slavery for getting illnesses.
    Thanks for restating there is rationing in every system and that there is a downside to every system. The question is do the upsides outweigh the downsides. Answer is yes.
    Yes, No,No
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Fascinating anecdote. Has no relevance to the empirical fact that single payer provides better care at a fraction of the price ours does though.
     
    redeemer216 likes this.
  23. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    But what about the small businesses? The cost is already borne by the people currently. Who do you think most people work for?
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Assured

    Correct and I don't trust her crystal ball

    You don't know what that outcome will and we already have that with Medicare part D and even discount pricing you get through GoodRx and other companies. Let the free market work.

    And we know how that speculation, supposition and conjecture turned out. Warren declaring what her "plan" will do has no more basis than did Obama's. Anyone can stand up and proclaim their speculation, that doesn't make it fact.

    Wrong those with private insurance do not want to change it especially when told of the cost.

    "The survey was conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, which regularly asks Americans about health policy issues as part of its Health Tracking Poll series. It finds that 56 percent of the country supports a "national health plan, sometimes called Medicare for All" and an even larger percentage—71 percent—supports the idea when told that it would "guarantee health insurance as a right for all Americans." When told that such a plan would eliminate health insurance premiums, 67 percent say they're in favor.

    One way to look at these numbers is as strong public approval for the broad outlines of a single-payer health care system, which would create a single national health insurance plan run by the federal government and financed through taxes. That public is support is why so many 2020 Democratic presidential contenders have been warming up to the idea.


    But the more revealing part of the survey, I think, comes from the questions focused on the costs of single payer, all of which caused support for Medicare for All to drop below 40 percent. Told that it would eliminate private health insurance and require people to pay more in taxes, for example, support fell to 37 percent. Told that it would cause some medical treatments and tests to be delayed, support dropped even further, to 26 percent."
    https://reason.com/2019/01/24/new-poll-shows-medicare-for-all-is-popul/

    The Devil is in the details.
     
  25. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't vote for obama. Was his plan announced during his first campaign as it was?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019

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