Elizabeth Warren is Still Dodging the Middle Class Tax Question

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Bluesguy, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    False. The 'better care' is subjective. And as to 'fraction of the price', has been proven to be false also.
     
  2. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Nope. https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

    It’s emprical fact single payer systems provide better care at a fraction of the price.
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you voted in that election I would hope you would know.
     
  4. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    Why? I hardly paid attention to politics at that time... Are you trying to build a strawman? Answer is no. During his campaign he never said anything about mandating private insurance. And he never announced a plan for universal healthcare either. All of it was vague promises. Your comparison was not valid.

    Obama had no plan at least nothing in comparison to current candidates. Not saying I like everything in the current healthcare plans or that I would vote for Warren, but that's not an argument.

    There is a big difference between speculation and an educated hypothesis or possibly theory as politics is not a hard science. You have to try things to move forward. Other countries have already trialed similar things, saying that it's speculation is just a straight out lie or at the very least a giant exaggeration of a words, to the point that it loses any meaning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Stop talking out both sides of your mouth, first you have to ask what was Obama's plan, then you claim you didn't pay attention then you claim to know what he said. All of some pointless reason.

    There is a big difference in making factual statements and stating pipe dreams. Any one can say what they wish to be the outcome, but what is the plan to get there?
     
  6. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Should maybe try contributing a little more to society instead of forcing society to contribute to you
     
  7. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    ...that was a lot of nonsense. So I can't not know something and then understand it later? None of these people have stated they are going to implement these plans alone, but you at the very least have to have a hard goal before you get anywhere. These things have to start somewhere or obviously they won't ever happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  8. lpast

    lpast Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Baloney and the proof of that weve had single payer govt insurance and its SUCKED for decades and theyve thrown billions at it and the govt still screws it up
    its called VA healthcare, Veterans health care, Tricare. Its singlepayer

    Health care in this country will swirl right down the commode with socialized medicine and destroy whats left of the middle class working class, because the rich alone cant pay for MILLIONS of freeloaders and illegal immigrants getting on medicare. It will cost trillions and that will come out of the pockets of every american that actually WORKS and hand it to every american that doesnt work and doesnt want to work and everyone that manages to run over the border.

    Lets not forget the people you are going to put out of work that will be getting their health care for free.

    They keep telling us now that medicare is broke and going belly up in a few years without Doubling it and adding millions of illegals
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  9. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    The va is not single payer. It's nationalised healthcare meaning the government actually hires the doctors. Single payer means the government acts as your accountant, they don't actually employ doctors or own the hospitals. The va is a mess but a lot of people still love it. As for most of the dems plans wanting to give illegal immigrants free healthcare as well, yeah I agree that's really dumb.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    VA isn’t single payer.

    Proven false. It’s an empirical fact that single payer systems provide better care for a fraction of our cost. It’s just reality.
     
  11. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Nope. An organization who promotes a particular program, will of course provide data that supports their existence.

    Deal with it a participant level. Talk to people who live it.
     
  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Sorry, you were given a peer reviewed paper showing single payer is superior to our system. Handwaiving it away and saying “Nuh uh” doesn’t change empirical reality. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  13. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    What's "better"?
    Who decides which surrogates define "better"?
    What factors in addition to healthcare system affect these surrogates?
    How are those "better" surrogates measured?
    What are the entrance requirements in the study that has established these surrogates as better?
    What are the methods of the study?
    Are the populations matched? If so, by what method?

    Caution : You're about to bat another zero.
    No surpirise
     
  14. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    It's an assembly of non standardized vital statistics of nations.
    It's not a scientific study and no peers reviewed anything of scientific nature
     
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You are well aware of the empirical evidence showing single payer to be a superior system to ours. I’ve given it to you dozens of times.
     
  16. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    And back here in reality, it’s a peer reviewed paper. Your “Nuh uh” and hand waiving away doesn’t make emprical fact go away.
     
  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you can present the study in an intellectual manner discussong the data collections, entrance criteria, methods and conclusions.

    Ready to strike out again?
    1, 2 3,..... go
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  18. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    You gave me this report which you have no ability to discuss. Baby level!
     
  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Already done so, in multiple threads including this one.
    https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

    And I’m batting 1000 on this, as you know.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I’ve discussed it. It clearly shows single payer is superior. You are fully aware of that.
     
  21. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    A single source to support something that has proven itself time and again (your 'empirical' evidence) to ration care, limit accessibility to care, and a 'one size fits all' basis paid for by taxation, and administered by the government. What could possibly go wrong?
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Well, again, simply saying “Nuh uh” doesn’t make the empirical evidence go away. Sorry.
     
  23. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    And you were saying about dismissive hand-having..... it does work the other way.
     
  24. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    You discussed it?
    Quote that discussion please.
    Thanks in advance slugger
     
  25. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    He has yet to discuss one aspect of his report.
    And that's all it is, a report of vital statistics of various nations. There is nothing that demonstrates "better" healthcare with single payer systems
     
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