EV Mandates Are Killing Affordable Cars

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 19Crib, Jun 9, 2024.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    EV drivers feel the same about having to pay fuel subsidies to oil companies. We are tired of the trillions spent on wars to protect this fuel source.

    So y’all give us back the trillions we have spent subsidizing you and we will give you back the couple of billion you feel is funding us.
     
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  2. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    To help compete against the rest of the world. This is a repeat of the 70s, the US sedan industry is nothing compared to other car producers, because they failed to act, US car industry only have trucks/pickups to genuinely compete.

    The ICE is 150 yr old technology.
     
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I agree which brings me full circle back to my original point. The inner workings of motorcycle laws are irrelevant in this case. The mere fact that motorcycles are ALLOWED to be rode on public roadways in the US negates any government mandated vehicle safety features for 4 wheeled cars/trucks. There is just simply no strong argument that can be made about vehicle safety requirements at the federal level when the same federal government allows folks to zip around on 2 wheeled machines that can go 150mph+. Especially when the same federal government actually allows you to put a kid between the handlebars and zip around on those things also.

    Again I'm not advocating we make bikes illegal or anything, I'm not even advocating we make it illegal to put kids on them even though I personally find that insane. I'm just making the argument that if the government says that I can zip around on a motorcycle with my kid then it's completely illogical to ban the sale of cheap vehicles that don't have "crumble zones" or airbags or whatever in the name of "safety". It's also completely illogical to give me a ticket if I choose to not put my seatbelt on while a dude zips past me on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt...

    I'm just personally irritated by the irrational laws in the US because these car manufacturers DO make cheap small true mid sized trucks and sell them around the world. They just can't sell them here because our government is stupid is makes laws based on backroom deals and lobbying instead of logic. It's so irrational that I can't even IMPORT one here because it's illegal to even import them. But a crotch rocket isn't....make it make sense.
     
  4. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True. Instead, California is planning to eliminate your choices. They are adding to oil companies needless reporting, gas is going up another 52 cents in taxes, and the state EPA is accused of slow walking gas station permits. (Except ARCO, but there is no one to follow the money.)
    I think oil companies should just shut down, and Californians,"You want it, you got it. Refine it in your kitchen."
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They don't. They get normal business expense write offs like any other business. The government does not give them money nor to the people who buy their products. EV's get DIRECT SUBSIDIES and are you denying Biden is spending $7.1B at last count building places to charge them? Did the government build gas stations?
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Americans build tens of thousands of excellent vehicles in the South don't put ours in the same bucket with the union plants. And you are free to buy stock in any of them and become an owner in them. When did one of our Southern plants have to have the President buy controlling interest in it and then run it into the ground?
     
  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Should states be able to define what can and cannot be purchased within their borders?
     
  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It’s largely agreed that the reason we had our last $2 trillion war was over oil. We have toppled numerous democratically elected governments around the globe due to oil. Anything that we can do that will bring energy production to the United States and keep it here, not relying on foreign nations indefinitely, I support.

    You are free to disagree
     
  9. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

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    So is EV…

    EV is almost 200 years old. First one was built in the 1830’s. 50 years before ICE.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g43480930/history-of-electric-cars/

    Electric motor: 1832

    Internal Combustion Engine: 1853

    So the motor itself (Electric) is 20 years older than ICE and the first EV was 50 years before an ICE vehicle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Democrat answer?
    Try to go after the car manufacturing companies, saddling them with all sorts of burdens, and "make them pay".

    Just one example of that here: Jury awarded black worker $137 million in lawsuit for being called N-word (posted in Race Relations, May 11, 2023)
    The company had to relocate to Texas to escape from the wacky progressive mentality in California and the craziness that has spilled over into the state's legal system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
  11. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Within reason, yes. This is unreasonable. But I do find it fascinating that the largest economy in America is dumping a load of sand in their own gears.
     
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  12. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    It seems whenever I find somebody critical of EVs, I ask a question, and it turns out they’ve never driven one. Don’t blame EVs for your overpriced, overcomplex, inefficient ICE vehicles, which have been subsidized by governments for many years. EVs are very important in the future socio-economic structure of America. Why? Consider all the advantages —-
    1. Much more efficient - recapturing of braking power can be as much as a 20% improved efficiency. This will be especially important with Electric trucks and buses.
    2. Can be powered by renewables. The electric fleet, with all the battery storage, can actually be considered a huge, incredible storage system for intermittent renewables.
    3. Spent EV batteries can be used as large-scale power storage for entire townships.
    4. EVs get you there quicker, with their incredible torque and ability to accelerate quickly. This will also be incredibly important with Semi trucks, where "Time is money", and this can lower the price of goods for everybody.
    5. Elimination of local pollution. There is no point-of-use pollution. This is also very important with Semi trucks, which currently emit 25% of the world's localized pollution.
    6. EVs have much lower maintenance costs. Very few moving parts.
    7. EVs have much lower fueling costs. The price per KWH is usually 1/2 to 1/3 that of ICEs. This is even more prominent with Semi trucks, where diesel costs continue to go up. This has the potential to lower the price of everyday goods for everybody.
     
  13. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    The WSJ has alway sung big oil's song.

    The study it mentions was done by a recently minted front group for the Texas Public Policy Foundation, and oil soaked right wing group.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  14. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One other comment.
    The liberals are trying to end fossil fuel cars. Fine.
    So when conservatives get in they will end EV's as impractical without consumer buy in.
    Then the liberals get back in, and nope! We are going back to EV's, dammit!
    Can you see the industrial catastrophe here?
     
  15. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the info, but EVs were ignored by 1910 if not a few years earlier.

    Around that time, electricity was replacing kerosene and gas lamps, which at the time was monopolized by Rockefeller. While making kerosene, a side product was gasoline, whoo Rockefeller once again was able to make cheap and used in ice. There was the diesel engine at the time to, that didn't need the more refined gasoline.
     
  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We should always be looking to technological advancement in energy production, I don’t speak for liberals but currently I think we need a combination of fossil fuels and renewables. EV’s are one of means of distributing renewable energy but are unlikely to be the last or best. States are meant to be testing grounds for ideas and policy, good or bad. And seeing that California has the third largest economy in the world they must be doing something right.
     
  17. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    The only thing I see:
    1. THEY are going to take your gas guzzler away.
    2. THEY are going to upset the oil barons.
     
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do YOU own an electric car?

    Why not?

    If having only having electric cars is such a utopia and so fantastic, then why haven't the great majority of people who support pushing electric cars on society actually have one?

    It's a very simple question that is worth thinking about.


    As of 2021, only 37% of California's electric supply was produced from renewable sources. And the electric grid is struggling with being able to supply enough power, and there have been multiple incidents of widespread power outages, as the state struggles to increase generation capacity and expand transmission infrastructure capacity to meet increasing power demand.
    Given that, don't you think it's more than a little premature to be trying to push electric cars?
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Lack of rebuttal noted again.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No one says we shouldn't it's the government forcing us into that is the topic. If you don't speak for anyone why should these government officials do so? Why not let the market do so just as it has in every major transitions, why is the government the better decider?
     
  21. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very well said. They want their cake, and they want to eat it too.

    Why cant we all just accept that EV’s ARE the future, and they are going to happen. Just like in the early 1900’s all the cowboys were saying that cars were a flash in the pan and that horses would still be needed. Cars were also not accepted in the beginning because the US didnt have the refining capacity, nor the distribution network to proved petrol all across the US…Right now the limitations on EV’s are because we don't have the charging infrastructure to support the ones we already have, let alone with the mandates that the government wants to impose. In 1963 the team at IBM that was actually working on super computing (at the time), were laughed at because nobody believed they could achieve the computing power they needed, and a small enough package to allow it to be acceptable for home use. Look at where we are today and we have more computing power in our pockets than they had in a 200,000 SF office space where they built the first Cray computers in 1975.

    EV’s will happen, and the Internal Combustion engine will go the way of the Ox cart
     
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  22. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

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    Wasn’t ignored. They just could not compete. Similar to today, but today the government helps them out.

    Daimler Benz created the first ICE engine as we know it today(before that they were large and impractical for a use such as this) and electric just couldn’t compare. Once it gets to be just like ICE vehicles(you know, couple minutes stop and you’re on your way again, actually being able to tow something, or take a long trip)without government help, then maybe they’ll have something.

    I don’t dislike them as they are fun, but they can’t fully compete with ICE vehicles yet.

    We know EV is older so complaining about how old ICE vehicles are really makes zero sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    carmakers like all the digital ICE vehicle stuff, they sell them for more and they break sooner and cost more to repair

    even breaking a side mirror is not cheap
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
  24. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

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    EV’s came first and went the way of the ox cart thanks to ICE. Multiple times.
     
  25. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reactionaries are always a catastrophe for a country.
     

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