"Everything in Dr Strangelove was true"

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by Gorgeous George, May 19, 2019.

  1. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. Because "The New Yorker" is such a well respected journal about military affairs.
     
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  3. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    Like bone spurs?
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And that has exactly what to do with the topic?

    Do not try political games with me, I as a rule ignore it. Stick to facts or do not even bother.

    This is just another propaganda piece of junk, one I would have ignored no matter who was President.
     
  5. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    Bone spurs said he knew more than the generals. the new yorker did not claim that they did.

    You left out a comma after I.

    I ignore poor grammar.:oldman:
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Why not take all this nonsense and drag it to the political section? People there love throwing around their beliefs and political crap around like this.

    It is not a military topic, it is simply you venting your spleen in an area it does not belong.
     
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  7. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion, "Dr. Strangelove" was the best Cold War movie made so far.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I agree, which should be obvious by my picture to the left.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  9. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    I was doing a comparison/contrast analysis.

    Please don't ignore it. I can't take rejection.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you just ignore it and mind your own business, eh?
     
  11. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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    Dr. Strangelove was scheduled for a preliminary screening on November 22, 1963 but that showing was delayed because of the assassination of JFK on that day.

    The film meshed with the assassination in two other ways. Originally, Slim Pickens, as bomber pilot Major T.J. “King” Kong, recited the contents of a survival kit, which included cash, condoms and gifts for Soviet females, then commented, “A fella could have a pretty good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff.” After the assassination, the word “Vegas” was dubbed in to replace “Dallas.”

    In addition, the movie finale originally included a pie fight, in which President Merkin Muffley takes several hits, prompting General Buck Turgidson to exclaim, “Gentlemen! Our gallant young president has been struck down in his prime!” Paramount Pictures was horrified at the line and the whole scene was deleted.

    I would suggest that culture predicts reality. Thus, the shooting of JFK prevented a real nuclear war just as the shooting delayed and forced changes to the fictional nuclear war.

    Warmonger In President Kennedy: Profile in Power, political journalist Richard Reeves discovered a Kennedy anxious to prove his machismo after being outperformed by Khrushchev in their first summit meeting in Vienna. Kennedy said, "(Khrushchev) thinks I have no guts . . . We have to confront them. The only place we can do that is Vietnam."

    Consider an alternative series of events had Kennedy not been assassinated. Kennedy opens a friendly dialogue with China. As a result, the rift between the Soviet Union and China grows faster and China refuses the Soviets land access to send supplies to North Vietnam. Kennedy decides to blockade North Vietnam to prevent Russian freighters from delivering weapons by sea. If a blockade worked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, why shouldn't it work in Vietnam?

    But this time the Russians refuse to be humiliated and counter with a new blockade of Berlin. A ship tries to run the blockade of Vietnam and is sunk by the US Navy. The Soviets strike back by shooting down an American plane that is trying to bring supplies to Berlin. War breaks out in Europe. One side is quickly overwhelmed and resorts to nuclear weapons. Missiles fly between the Soviet Union and the US. Vietnam, the unclear war, becomes the nuclear war.
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Would never have happened.

    It must be remembered, that President Kennedy was as worried about China as he was about the Soviets. He had been a strong supporter of Taiwan, and even backed and supported India in the 1962 Sino-India War.

    Also Mao castigated Khrushchev for folding in the Cuban Missile Crisis, as well as was increasing his own support for North Vietnam. And one of his biggest worries was that China would become a nuclear power (which happened after his death in 1964).

    You simply can not inject ideas like this without at least understanding what was possible for the leaders. Kennedy was a devout Anti-Communist, and the idea of him allying with China is ridiculous. Especially since China was also a major supplier of arms and training to North Vietnam.

    Sure China might have agreed to a blockade. But only so they could increase their own shipments to take the place of those lost from the Soviets.
     
  13. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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    Richard Nixon built a political career on anti-communism yet opened the door to China. Why could Kennedy not have done the same?

    Only five years after Kennedy’s assassination, China’s relationship with both the Soviet Union and Vietnam soured and China ended its assistance to North Vietnam.

    Also, given his use of amphetamines and other mood-altering drugs to cope with his Addison disease, Kennedy may have become increasingly prone to unpredictable and rash behavior.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Huge difference in personalities.

    Do not forget, President Kennedy was a Hawk, and a Conservative. President Nixon was a pacifist and a Liberal.

    And yes, do not even bother to try and tell me about their history. I have researched that extensively, including when they first became friends in their Freshman year in the House when they had adjoining offices. Their campaigning for each other, and working closely on Senator Joe's commission.

    But President Nixon also had a vastly different situation. President Kennedy never had to deal with a nuclear armed China, President Nixon did. Plus in the time of President Kennedy, the world (including the UN) followed the "Two China" policy. That all ended in 1971 when the UN expelled the representatives from the Republic of China, and only recognized the People's Republic of China.

    That was the situation that President Nixon was under when he went to visit and started the process to normalize relations. There were a great many things that simply did not apply in any way a decade previously.

    And even that did not change much officially, it only opened a door. The US still continued to recognize the ROC and not the PRC until 1979. That is when President Carter officially switched official recognition from one to the other.

    Once again, you are simply making speculations based entirely upon your personal beliefs or wishes, and completely ignoring any actual geopolitical situations that were going on in the world at the time.
     
  15. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

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    Soviet-Chinese relations soured over Korea, when Stalin roped Mao into the war and then got cold feet and abandoned his support for that war, and then rubbed salt into the wound by forcing Mao to pay in gold and in advance for the weaponry and aid he needed to fight us. This break continued well into Khrushchev's regime, over territory disputes between the Soviets and Red Chinese. It was the Soviets who finally went bankrupt over Viet Nam, in 1973, with the Chinese jumping in to prop up the North.

    Kennedy was just in way over his head, and not really up to the office; few are, really, but Nixon was the better candidate between the two, even if Mao and the Chinese had no respect at all for Nixon they very much respected his negotiator Kissinger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Kissinger was one of the first people tapped by Nixon after the election. He had known of him years earlier, as Dr. Kissinger was one of the senior members of the Eisenhower era National Security Council, and had largely left the Government after the Kennedy Presidency took over. He worked with RAND, Harvard, and several other prominent think thanks between administrations.

    And he was not even President Nixon's negotiator for many years. In fact, he did not even become SecState until the 2nd Administration, in 1973. However, he was probably the most powerful National Security Advisor we have ever had, and often gave the President advise in areas far outside of his official capacity.
     

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