Explaining John's Revelation

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Aryeh B., Sep 1, 2021.

  1. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    If you want to get a deeper understanding of Revelation 6, then read Isaiah 19, these two passages describe the same period of the Awakening of the Church.

    In Isaiah's prophecy, we find three types of believers: "Egyptians", "Assyrians" and "Israel".

    The type of believer "Egyptians" is a deeply religious type of person. They can kneel before Jesus Christ, because in their imagination He is like the despot Pharaoh. The Egyptians are very superstitious, they pay attention to all sorts of signs, they are afraid of the barcode, they tell each other horror stories about the implantation of microchips in the right hand. It is this category of believers that will be frightened by the "light cloud" of people who support the idea of the Third Temple as a meeting place for the elect from the four winds. The rider on the white horse of the Third Temple will scare them, they will see in him a sign of the Apocalypse.

    Another category of believers is the "Assyrians". These are worldly believers who will flood into Christian congregations after the awakening of the "Egyptians." This stream of new people from the world will be "Mager-shalal-hash-baz". Such people will easily accept the authority of the Antichrist, because he will promise them material gains in exchange for their prayers.

    The third category of believers is Israel, the heirs of God. These are the elect from the four winds who will appear in the Third Temple when it is built. This is "Immanuel", which Isaiah opposes to the robber Mager-shalal-hash-baz.
     
  2. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    You probably all know that "wind" and "spirit" are one and the same word in Hebrew. The four heavenly winds correspond to the four world religions.

    When we read in Daniel 7 about the struggle of the four spirits of world religions over the sea, that is, for power over the world, then we see the results of this struggle. Four beasts came out of the sea.

    The first beast is Judaism. "Lion" is a symbol of Judaism.

    The second beast is the bear of Islam. Islam tore the first three commandments from the back of the fourth beast, establishing itself in strict monotheism.

    The third beast has four heads, these are the Eastern religions: Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Shintoism.

    The fourth beast is the Christian religion. After Caesars, Popes and Presidents become the head of Christianity, the first three commandments are destroyed, instead of God, a specific Antichrist appears: Caesar, Pope or President. An additional clue that this beast is a Christian religion is found in 2 Esdras. There, the fourth beast of Daniel is identified with the three-headed eagle. The feathers of this eagle are the Caesars of Rome. The second feather, Caesar Augustus, reigns the longest. It is noteworthy that this eagle extends into the pre-Christian era. This suggests that the Christian religion since the 4th century is not Christianity, but a camouflaged religion of ancient Rome. This is truly a terrible and terrible beast: Roman Catholicism, Byzantium Orthodoxy and US Protestantism. Each of these empires has an eagle symbol. Where the corpse of the original Church will be, the eagles of the pagan empires have gathered there. According to 2 Esdras, the lion of Judaism proclaims the Judgment of God over Christianity, returning us to the first beast of Daniel, when the lion rises to his feet and receives a wise heart from the saints who appeared in the Third Temple.

    In Revelation 13, all four beasts from Daniel's vision merge into one seven-headed monster, inheriting the individual features of each of the four religions. Modern civilization unites everyone: Jews, Muslims, Christians, representatives of Eastern religions. Religious differences are erased when it comes to building a comfortable earthly paradise without God. The name of this beast: Wealth, Prosperity, Mammon. In the original Greek it is euporia = 666, the word is mentioned in Acts 19:25.
     
  3. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    lust for power, lust for money, lust for glory

    These three unclean spirits are gathering the leaders of Christian denominations in Armageddon, the battle for material goods in this world.

    And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (16:13)

    dragon (diabolos = Slanderer) -> lust for power
    beast (euporia = Wealth) -> lust for money
    false prophet (paradosis = Tradition) -> lust for glory

    euporia, εὐπορία (5 + 400 + 80 + 70 + 100 +10 + 1) = 666
    paradosis, παράδοσις (80 + 1 + 100 + 1 + 4 + 70 + 200 + 10 + 200) = 666
     
  4. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Wow. It's truly hard to believe someone could get it so wrong and fail so massively on every level.

    Real scholars never use the King Joke Vision because of its many errors in translations, not to mention the outright lies.

    Where wannabe x-tians like you fail miserably is the total inability to recognize or even understand the difference between prophecies that are sealed versus those that are unsealed.

    X-tians have an incredibly difficult time grasping the meaning of the Greek word tachos.

    Revelation 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen at once (Greek =Τάχος = tachos).

    Revelation 22:6 Then the angel said to me, “These words are reliable and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon.” (Greek = Τάχος = tachos).

    The Greek word Τάχος (tachos) means "quickly, without delay, soon, at once."

    Twenty centuries, two millennia or 2,000 years, however you want to call it is not "quickly, without delay, soon, at once" no matter how hard you try to spin it.

    Revelation 22:10 Then he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy contained in this book, because the time is near.

    This is further proof that many of the bible-thumpers and those of the "Rapture Tribulation Fantasy" crowd don't actually read the texts or if they do, they don't understand what they are reading.

    “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy…”


    Unsealed prophecies happen now, soon, quickly, immediately, at once, without delay, within days, weeks or months. Prophecies that are "sealed" are intended to happen in the far distant future, meaning they do not begin to unfold for centuries.

    That is not my opinion or interpretation; rather that is what the texts actually say.

    Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and mornings that was told to you is correct. But you should seal up the vision, for it refers to a time many days from now.”

    Daniel 12:4 “But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end.”

    Daniel 12:8 (b) So I said, “Sir, what will happen after these things?” 12:9 He said, “Go, Daniel. For these matters are closed and sealed until the time of the end.

    Isaiah 29:11 To you this entire prophetic revelation is like words in a sealed scroll. When they hand it to one who can read and say, “Read this,” he responds, “I can’t, because it is sealed.” These events were "sealed" because they weren't intended to happen until centuries later.


    You can't even get the imagery right.

    Hint: It's consistent throughout both testaments.

    Water is chaos and conflict, not people. Only someone completely ignorant of Hebrew cosmogony could screw that up.

    Congratulations for butchering every one of them.

    No. You fail to grasp the symbolism of the white horse, not to mention the crown and bow are symbols of armed authority.

    Wrong again.

    Get back to us when you understand the symbolism of the color red. After you do that, why don't you actually read the passage?

    No doubt "...kill one another..." went right over your head. In an external conflict, one kills the enemy, but in an internal conflict -- meaning a civil war -- you kill one another.

    Since you don't understand the symbolism of the white and red horses, I suppose it was way too much to ask to understand the symbolism of a black horse, which is despair.

    What usually happens after a civil war? Despair, often because there are shortages of everything.

    Nope. The pale horse symbolizes death.

    You missed so badly there it's not even funny, plus, if there was any truth to it, then those are past events, not future events.

    When you understand the meaning of tachos, and you can distinguish between sealed and unsealed prophecies, you'll figure it out.

    Now you're just making things up as you go along.

    You're lack of historical knowledge is obvious.

    Again, if there's any truth to Revelation, those four trumpets represent the four invasions of Rome in succession by the Huns, Goths, Vandals and Ostrogoths.

    Your inability to understand the symbolism leads you to the all the wrong conclusions.

    A falling star symbolizes a pagan god.

    Your lack of knowledge of history doesn't allow you to figure out which leader of the four invading groups I mentioned claimed to be a son of Mars.


    9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven to the earth; and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    Maybe one day you'll figure out what a falling star symbolizes.

    When you learn that "testament" means "witness" then you'll come to understand that the two witnesses are the Old Testament and the New Testament.
     
  5. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Actually, no, it's a wee bit more technically complicated than that.

    When we read in Daniel 7 about the struggle of the four spirits of world religions over the sea, that is, for power over the world, then we see the results of this struggle. Four beasts came out of the sea.

    The first beast is Judaism. "Lion" is a symbol of Judaism.

    The second beast is the bear of Islam. Islam tore the first three commandments from the back of the fourth beast, establishing itself in strict monotheism.

    The third beast has four heads, these are the Eastern religions: Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Shintoism.

    The fourth beast is the Christian religion. [/quote]

    Um, no.

    The “sea” in prophecy represents chaos and conflict, something you don't understand.

    "Beasts" represent empires.

    Here, we have four empires arising through conflict. The other way an empire could be created is through the peaceful merger or voluntary union of many countries and kingdoms – in that case the beasts would come from the air (the mental plane of concepts and ideas – people came to believe that union was beneficial and chose to do so), or possibly the earth (stability – several pre-existing kingdoms or countries united by marriage – e.g. Aragon and Castile – or another basis for unification).

    You people are something else.

    This might be a good time to ponder something that is often overlooked. The first five chapters contain introductory remarks and invocations for the Seven Churches and the source and circumstances of John’s vision.

    What are those seven Churches?

    The Seven Churches are: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.

    Where are they?

    They are all located in the Anatolian Peninsula or eastern Greece.

    Put another way, how many of those 7 churches are in Rome?

    ZERO.

    How many are in modern-Italy?

    ZERO.

    Weren't there churches Rome/Italy at the time John of Patmos was writing Revelation?

    There sure were.

    The highly intelligent reader will now ask, "Why doesn't John include any of the churches in Rome/Italy?"

    When you discover the answer, your understanding will improve 100-fold.

    Why was the church in Rome not included? Because Jesus of Nazareth didn’t found the church of Rome? Nope, Jesus didn’t found any of the churches as they didn’t exist until after he was gone. James, the brother of Jesus of Nazareth was the first “Bishop of Rome.” There most certainly was a Bishop of Rome in 96 CE when John of Patmos wrote Revelation.

    How could the church in Rome possibly be ignored?

    There’s a reason Rome is not included and it is not by accident; is by design (and yes, that is a big friggin’ hint… Hello?... Anyone?... Bueller?....Bueller?). The church in Rome is not part of the True Church.

    Let’s move on to Revelation 13. John gives details on the Beast in Revelation 12.

    Revelation 13:1 Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns were ten diadem crowns, and on its heads a blasphemous name.

    As we have previously seen in prophecy, beasts that come from the sea are empires that emerge out of chaos and conflict. The Beast is clearly the Roman Empire and its subsequent incarnations. The seven heads represent the forms of government that existed over the course of the empire. At the time John is writing this prophecy in the year 96 CE, five forms of government have passed, the sixth form is functioning, and the seventh is yet to come.

    According to Livy, Rome was governed by

    1) Kings;
    2) a Republic;
    3) the Council of 10;
    4) the Tribunes;
    5) the Dictators; and
    6) the Imperial Principate.

    If you don’t like Livy, you can use Tacitus as he lists them:

    1) Kings;
    2) a Republic;
    3) Council of 10;
    4) the Military Tribunes;
    5) the Dictators;and
    6) the Imperium

    Yes, that's right. If you don't understand the history of the period, you can't interpret squat.

    There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the fourth empire in Nebuchadnezzar’s vision, the fourth Beast of Daniel and the Beast of Revelation all represent the Roman Empire.

    The following verse confirms that:

    Revelation 13:2(a) Now the beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth.

    This verse is oft ignored, especially by those who have psychotic fantasies about a tribulation thing, because it proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the Beast is the Roman Empire. We have images resembling a leopard, a bear and a lion’s mouth. These are the same images referenced in Daniel 7 that denoted the Chaldean (Neo-Babylonian), Medo-Persian and Macedonian empires.

    The Roman Empire conquered the territories of all three of the former empires in the visions of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel:

    1) Pompey defeated Antiochus XIII in 65 BCE. The Roman Empire took over the territories of both the former Chaldean and Medo-Persian Empires, and half of the former Macedonian Empire, specifically the kingdoms given to Cassander and Seleucus.

    2) The third part of the former Macedonian Empire (Ptolemaic) was conquered in 31 BCE (Julius defeats Marc Antony and Cleoptra VII commits suicide).

    3) The fourth part given to Lysimachus (the Balkans) was conquered at the end of the 1st Century CE by Trajan.

    And now you know why the Tribulation Fantasy weirdos ignore that verse and refuse to address it.

    Revelation 13:2(b) The dragon gave the beast his power, his throne, and great authority to rule.

    The dragon symbolizes evil in the context here. In other contexts, it symbolizes human agency as the “abyss” does (which is often also evil).

    Revelation 13:3 One of the beast’s heads appeared to have been killed to death, but the lethal wound had been healed. And the whole world followed the beast in amazement; 13:4 they worshiped the dragon because he had given ruling authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast too, saying: “Who is like the beast?” and “Who is able to make war against him?”

    The Beast has seven heads. Referring back to the forms of government by Livy and Tacitus, the sixth head was the Imperial form of government. It ceased to exist when the Roman Empire was destroyed.

    The seventh head represents the line of governors and dukes established as an exarchate for the Kingdom of Ravenna by the emperor of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire in the year 535, ruling the disjointed remnants of the (western) Roman Empire as a kingdom.

    Emperor Diocletian reorganized the political subdivisions of the Roman Empire in the early 300s into Dioceses, Archbishoprics, Bishoprics, Proconsulates, and Patriarchates. The Imperial Roman Catholic Church adopted the same organizational structure, and then established ecclesiastical nobles with similar titles. Pope equates to Emperor, Cardinal to Governor, Archbishops and Bishops are self-evident, Monsignors to Consuls and so on.

    The sixth head is brought back to life in the form of the Imperial Roman Catholic Church and its imperial hierarchy. The Roman Empire did not rule Western Europe, because it was gone, and the Roman Kingdom ruled only small non-contiguous areas in Italia and environs, but the Imperial Roman Catholic Church did. The Imperial Roman Catholic Church had all the power and authority of the original Roman Empire, and that power and authority had extended itself into all of the kingdoms created out of the collapse of the empire. The only difference between the Roman Empire and the Imperial Roman Catholic Church is that the one paid a tithe instead of a tax, and one submitted to a pope in lieu of an emperor.

    Hopefully now everyone is not so utterly confused.
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    In case you missed it, the two "witnesses" get killed and the world rejoices because they are finally dead (at least for three-and-a half days).
     
  7. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    Most Bible prophecy, and especially the book of Revelation, is filled with imagery and symbolism which obviously can be subject to various different private individual interpretations. However, the ability to correctly interpret is only given by God's Holy Spirit... the same way the books of the Bible were originally written... at the direction of God.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  8. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    I would like to ask some questions [one at a time] to whoever cares to [seriously] answer.

    In Revelation, why is the end of the age globalist evil empire called "Babylon" ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is magic knowledge. Given by magic sky gods.

    And no two people agree on what any of it means. That alone is proof it is all BS.
     
  10. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    I don’t use English translations of the Bible at all, because it’s not my language. But since I am writing on an English-speaking forum, I use those translations that are common among English-speaking Christians.

    The fact that 1: 1 says "soon" indicates a double fulfillment of the prophecy. On the one hand, the processes described in Revelation continued continuously. For example, the beast from the earth (13:13) began to bring down fire from heaven around the 4th century, the so-called "grace-filled fire" in Jerusalem on Easter. On the other hand, the main part of the prophecy will come true in the last time.

    Hebrew has nothing to do with it, because (17:15) defines the word "water".

    I use definitions from Bible prophecy. Zechariah 9: 13-14 is the link for Revelation 6: 2 and Matthew 24:27.

    Isaiah 19 shows just such an inner conflict between believers. "Murder" here is excommunication from God, mutual. This is a conflict in denominations, which has always been, but which will intensify due to the fulfillment of the prophecy of Ezekiel about the Third Temple.

    Your attempt at interpretation is primitive. You are not guided by the scriptures. Olive oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. Wine is a symbol of joy in the Holy Spirit. Wheat and cereals are the image of God's Word. Wheat is a high quality Word in Christianity. Barley is a lower grade Word in other world religions.

    You don't see the obvious. The beasts of the earth are grievous wolves here, not sparing the flock. In all cases in Revelation, "death" is not physical death, but separation from God, who is the source of life for the believer.

    You, like most Christians, do not understand the paradox of the Second Coming. The events of Revelation will take place before your eyes, but you will not be able to identify them because your mind is polluted by human interpretations of the Scriptures.

    You are wrong. All the given interpretation of Revelation is the result of long-term research, when we had to wait for many years for a word from the Lord, explaining the questions of interest to us.

    You see, you need to have the Holy Spirit to understand the Holy Scriptures. All human knowledge will not help you understand Revelation if you do not have the Holy Spirit.

    The shooting star is the Antichrist, a specific Christian leader who will spiritually unite Christians in the United States and the rest of the world to build the kingdom of the beast. This leader will inspire everyone to pray for healing from the great crisis, and the "beast" of human civilization will be healed, the global economy will rise, the chaos will end. I could tell you the name of the alleged Antichrist, but I prefer to wait a few months for him to declare himself.

    And such an interpretation might also work. But the precise definition is Judaism and Christianity. They both died (and Tanakh and the New Testament cannot die in any way). The "two witnesses" are two olives from Romans 11 and two sticks from Ezekiel 37 to be exact.
     
  11. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    Since no one [yet] has answered my question... I will.

    Revelation calls the end of the age evil globalist empire, Babylon, because it is symbolic of ancient Babylon who ruled the ancient Biblical world for 70 years. Ancient Babylon was the "head of gold" in the king of Babylon's dream of a man who symbolizes the successive empires that would rule God's people until the Kingdom of God is set up [Daniel 2.] Revelation also calls the the last evil empire [the weakened iron mixed with miry clay feet of the symbolic man in Daniel 2] "Babylon" to symbolize the similarities between the first and last evil empires. Interestingly, the same hero, God's anointed king, Cyrus, who conquered ancient Babylon and freed God's people... is also present symbolically in the book of Revelation if one knows and understands Cyrus' Biblical and secular history [which was also ancient Israel's history.]

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  12. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    Babylon is known as a place where people wanted to exalt their name instead of God's name.

    Babylon is also known as a place of captivity for the Jewish people.

    Today's denominations of Christianity are Babylonian captivity, where we are enslaved to serve foreign gods. Revelation describes the destruction of the old world, when humanity realizes the futility of building a technological paradise. Comfort is not achieved by technology, comfort is achieved by the Spirit of the living God when we live in accordance with the laws of the Kingdom of Heaven. When people understand this, no one will need the United States, because the technological paradise will not attract anyone else, the seduction will stop. Likewise, a religion that serves and supports the material aspirations of the present world will be condemned and no one else will buy its "goods".

    Thus, the construction of the Third Temple to restore the name of God will be a sign for the exodus from Babylonian captivity and the beginning of the end of the Babylonian harlot of Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism. The city of Yahweh Shammah will be the final blow that will destroy the present Christian religion, which is "Babylon" and the mother of earthly harlots.
     
  13. Basset Hound

    Basset Hound Active Member

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    John, you should not have eaten those mushrooms that they said were so good.
     
  14. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    On the names of the beasts from Revelation 13.

    There are only two words in the New Testament with the sum of the numerical values of the letters equal to 666.

    There is a pointer to the first word:

    If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. (1 Corinthians 15:32)

    The key word is "beasts". The episode referred to here by the Apostle Paul is described in detail in Acts 19. There is a word with the sum of the numerical values of the letters equal to 666:

    Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.

    The word for "wealth" in the Greek original is "euporia". This is the name of the first beast from Revelation 13.

    εὐπορία (5 + 400 + 80 + 70 + 100 +10 + 1) = 666

    The second word, which has the sum of the meanings of the letters equal to 666, is "tradition", in Greek "paradosis". This is the name of the second, religious beast from Revelation 13.

    παράδοσις (80 + 1 + 100 + 1 + 4 + 70 + 200 + 10 + 200)= 666
     
  15. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    I'm of the strong opinion that the "beast" in Revelations was referring to Nero Caesar, and not some person in our yet to occur future.
     
  16. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    This is completely insane interpretation, which wants to imagine the Lord God as a fool. Antichrists are not the people who pursued Christians. Antichrist are the people who Christianity turned into a devil tool:

    They went out from us, but they were not of us… (1 John 2:19)

    All such versions come from the devil trying to redirect the prophecy on some irrelevant person for which you are not responsible today.

    At the time when Revelation was written, Caesar Nero has already died.

    First, the beast is not an antichrist. There is no person with seven heads. Antichrist is a "image of the beast."

    Secondly, millions of Christians will love Antichrist.

    An example of an antichrist can be emperor Napoleon. US President George W. Bush a wonderful candidate for Antichrist, because many Christians voted for him. Jesus Christ refused to be the king over sinners and ran into the mountains, and George W. Bush on the contrary, claimed that he would receive anointing from God to become president of the United States. From here we see that this anointing was from the false prophet, the beast from the earth, the Spirit of Fake Christianity.

    P.S. Sorry, today Google translation is giving out some kind of nonsense, I check, but I can make mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  17. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    See, I disagree. I think there are arguments to be made that Revelations was written before Nero. Most of which is the fact that Revelations says, “go measure the temple”, which was destroyed in 70AD.

    Further, Revelations says that the things about to take place will be soon. They will shortly take place.
     
  18. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    Measuring the temple in Revelation is the measurement of the Church. Who is a believer, and who is strangers in Christianity.

    Revelation was written after 100 years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  19. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    The seven heads and seven hills clearly refers to Rome, and is a list of Caesars. It stops prior to Nero.
     
  20. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    No need to invent. Version with Caesar Nero is not relevant. Antichrist is the president of the United States. People thinking that they are Christians and choose an antichrist every 4 years. The US state serves Mammon, that is, the property of its citizens. Accordingly, all such a Christian religion cannot serve God. This is relevant.
     
  21. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    About the beast with the seven heads is written:

    And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    (17:10)

    In the days of the Apostle John the first five empires stopped their existence. The sixth head, Rome, was acting. And the seventh head is US.
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Those guys did a wonderful job formatting the books, didn't they?
     
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!!

    These are some seriously heavy ideas I must admit......
    I believe that Shalom is coming fast between Judaism, Christianity and Islam......

    but it will be after President Donald J. Trump is back in true power over America again......


    and after a major leage Economic Goliath has been dealt with......


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-deserts-green.578489/page-2#post-1072920001
     
  24. Aryeh B.

    Aryeh B. Active Member

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    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (11:19)

     
    DennisTate likes this.
  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I see the birth of America, our government, our freedom and our equality in freedom as gifts from God.
     

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