Face masks cannot stop healthy people getting Covid-19, says WHO

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by LafayetteBis, Apr 7, 2020.

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  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    masks protect, but if the person infected wears the mask is the most bang for the buck, but they may protect some if the unprotected wears them in public

    I think the issue is the shortage for medical professionals if everyone wears them
     
  2. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Not as high is GOOD.

    Wear a friggin MASK
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AGE OF CORONAVIRUS DEATHS

    The death-rates have also a great-deal to do with age. Perhaps more so than any other single factor. From here:

    About one-quarter of all deaths are above the age of 60, after which the percentages drop very quickly ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    The CDC says it will help reduce transmission to others by wearing one. That is always my position - this is what the actual experts say. Unlike you, I don't go around playing Holiday Inn expert.

     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    So far correct ... but wrong point of view!
    Such a face mask should not prevent to get COVID-19 from others ... it should prevent that YOU spread COVID-19 around by cough and sneeze if yu have it.
    The range of the so-called droplet infection is reduced to less than half a meter by wearing a mask ... even with a cloth or scarf in front of your mouth ... rather less than half a meter!
    In short: If you have such a mask or scarf in front of your mouth, you are not playing the "Bacillus mother ship" for COVID-19! Don't forget ... It takes 10-14 days between infection and the onset of illness, where you feel healthy, but you can infect everyone else during these 10 to 14 days! ;-)
     
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  6. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Are you just pretending to be this stupid?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  7. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    The WHO is a total sham. They have zero credibility.
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There seems to be sufficient difference of opinion in the matter. The French government has not said "You don't need a mask".

    Many people here are wearing them. Many people are still dieing here. The crest is coming, but not today and maybe not tomorrow. But, it's coming.

    The restaurant or bar with tables outside is a hallmark of French living. There are none any more. All those meet-up places that are an essential part of French-living are closed because the government experts don't want the French mingling. To such a point that if you do not have a good-reason to be outside, and you've not made an official request and kept a copy of it on your smartphone or on paper and on-you, then you get a fine (payable immediately) of 139€!

    Now the French are only slightly more bull-headed than we-Yanks. But by the third day (and we are on our 5th-week in France) the French were walking around with masks AND their permission-document specifying one of seven actions that they were allowed to take. One of which was "vital shopping". (And then they returned home! Because there is literally nothing else to do*! Everything is closed except supermarkets and pharmacies!)

    So, Americans will do it "their way" and the French will do it THEIR WAY. (The French EMPHASIZE EVERYTHING IMPORTANT when writing - and otherwise they shout ... ! ;^)

    *Except watching TV, and now in our 5th-week some great American movies made in the 1950s are gobbling up our time here in France! Haven't seen John Wayne in a donkey's age!!! And Lauren Bacall! Wow! Lauren Bacall!!!!!
     
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct, mask use is largely to protect others — especially the elderly.
     
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  10. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    Well they can not hurt as long as people know the mask's limitations.
     
  11. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Do you think your risk is reduced from high to safe if some fat sloppy cretin is blowing aerosols out of the side their mask ?
    What are you pretending to be?
     
  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Reduce risk from what to what?
    Is risk reduced from high to low?
    High to not as high?

    Do you have any ability to quantify what your risk reduction is and whether or not that new risk level is "safe"?

    So while your patting yourself on the back for your awesome post, realize you have no idea what you are talking about
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  13. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    How much?
    Helmets protect motorcycle riders.
    Does that make motorcycling safe?
     
  14. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Not as high could still be high.
    You have no idea.
     
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  15. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    There is an inherent contradiction in the WHO position:

    ... World Health Organization officials Monday said they still recommend people not wear face masks unless they are sick with Covid-19 or caring for someone who is sick.

    "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit.

    "There also is the issue that we have a massive global shortage," Ryan said about masks and other medical supplies. "Right now the people most at risk from this virus are frontline health workers who are exposed to the virus every second of every day. The thought of them not having masks is horrific."

    Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, an infectious disease epidemiologist with the WHO, also said at Monday's briefing that it is important "we prioritize the use of masks for those who need it most," which would be frontline health care workers.

    "In the community, we do not recommend the use of wearing masks unless you yourself are sick and as a measure to prevent onward spread from you if you are ill," Van Kerkhove said.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html
    If masks are deemed effective for "frontline health workers," they must also be effective, when properly used, for anyone in the general public who might be exposed to the virus, although her risk of exposure may be less.

    If the WHO wishes to prioritize the needs of "frontline heath workers" that makes sense, certainly, but pretending that "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit" does not.

    If they are of benefit to those more likely to be exposed, they are of benefit to those less likely to be exposed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  16. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Next time someone sneezes directly in front of you would you prefer them to cover up their sneeze or not cover up their sneeze? When someone coughs right in front of you would you prefer them to cover up their cough or not cover up their cough?
     
  17. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When they say mask, I'm assuming they are referring to actual medical grade masks. The big thing going around now is these homemade masks made of regular cotton material and are not well fitting on most users. I'd like to hear more about if they are useful.
     
  18. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If helmets are deemed effective for racing drivers, they must also be effective for normal road drivers. Why don't we have a policy recommending helmets for all drivers?

    You also casually brushed over the phrase "when properly used" which is actually one of the major sticking points. Healthcare professionals can be and are specifically trained in the correct use of PPE and (should) have access to all the tools and resources to implement those procedures. There are also rules, checks and cultural pressure to support the continued and consistent implementation. None of that exists among the general public and it seems inevitably that widespread use of masks by the general public would unavoidably involve widespread misuse of masks, potentially to the point of rendering them ineffective or even counter-productive.

    Who is pretending? Are you aware of any specific evidence to that effect?

    The fact it that it isn't at all clear whether encouraging or mandating mask use by the general public would be beneficial or not. Given that, along with the known risk of mass-use draining supplies of PPE for key workers, it is perfectly rational to stick to the current policies.
     
  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    A mask does not recognize whether it is being worn by a frontline healthcare worker or an ordinary citizen coming into contact with the virus, just as crash helmets do not have the selective capacity to protect only the noggins of race car drivers. One may opine that the risk to your average motorist does not indicate she should be wearing one, but pretending that they would not protect her head in a violent crash is nonsense.

    "There is no specific evidence to suggest that a driver wearing helmets has any potential benefit in a crash unless that driver is driving a race car," is absurd.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  20. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    WHO is afraid of two things.

    People thinking masks are a force field protector and going about doing stupid ****

    Keeping masks from doctors and nurses etc.

    Who isn't smart enough to realize that?
     
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  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, but in the face of a highly aggressive illness, European nations have found themselves caught with "their pants down". No one was truly prepared for the urgency that COVID-19 would bring. (Which is no good excuse either!)

    France was told by a Chinese mask-supplier that though they had accepted to furnish a very high quantity at a decent price to Europe, that the "Americans had offered three times the money if they shipped the masks immediately". The Chinese manufacturer accepted that higher offer.

    Who do you think made that deal from the US side? Tell me it wasn't Kushner! In an international-emergency (of life and death consequences) it is big-money-that-should-win-the-game ... ?!?

    PS: Why did Kushner care? He wanted to show the PotUS how "efficient" he was. And damn the world if there were life-threatening consequences! Besides, it wasn't HIS money! That's the way Replicants work. It's all about the money, money, money!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  22. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're conflating two points there. The reference to helmets was to question the idea that if there is any level of potential benefit to a policy, it should be implemented.

    That said, I'd put helmets for road drivers in a similar category. There is a logical inference that it would be beneficial in some predictable circumstances but I'm not aware of any experimentation of the benefits in general or any potential negative impacts or unpredictable side effects (such as reduced vision/hearing, increased fatigue or dangerous behaviour to avoid getting caught not wearing one).

    There are undeniably predictable circumstances where a person wearing a mask would be beneficial in reducing infection risk but we're not talking about individual predictable circumstances, we're talking about a general policy and that would have to be assessed on the whole, not just on cherry-picked individual benefits. There is no specific evidence that the policy as a whole would be beneficial overall, taking account of all the countless advantages and risks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  23. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I wore my motorcycle helmet a few times in the store, it's Florida so the heat is not favorable to keeping the shield down for long, so I would flip it up when nobody around. I know full well such a helmet doesn't protect me, there is no filter, but it is better than nothing should I allergy sneeze, and not know I have the thing. Maybe even the motorcycle Balaclavas can protect others somewhat; double it and not the ninja look.

    Unless there is a ready supply of masks, and there aren't, if the point is just to slow the spread, we don't need fancy masks those working around the sick need. Plus, I have a beard, N95 masks are pretty much worthless. Unless one covers the eyes, N95 alone is not worth squat.
     
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  24. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    Sneeze in WHO's face and then then ask them if they wanted you to cover your mouth.
     
  25. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He isn't pretending...
     
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