Failed State - Breadlines of Capitalism

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Horhey, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    5,724
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    “I have No Empathy For The Younger Generation” - Joe Biden

    “Nothing Will Fundamentally Change” - Joe Biden



    An estimated 54 million Americans are facing food insecurity. Tens of thousands are lining up at food banks. 30-40% are at risk of being evicted. Millions have lost their employer-tied health insurance.

    Yet despite 77% public support for more stimulus, no relief is coming. Both parties see it as a "disincentive" for getting people back to work. As president-elect Biden stated in recent speech after meeting with corporate executives, the #1 concern of the ruling class is "to get the economy back on track."

    Joe Biden's Campaign Is Making It Very Clear: They Will Push Austerity in the White House



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  2. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    17,086
    Likes Received:
    9,333
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Schumer and McConnell getting together to discuss further stimulus as of 11-19-2020.
     
  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    2,850
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I drive past the food bank on my way to work. Lines have been super long every day this week. Not sure if that is because they have more to give out because of Thanksgiving and word has spread or if it is because the need is growing. Most of the people appear to middle aged or older.
     
  4. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have a couple local ones on the news often. They were giving out massive butterballs today. Huge sacks of taters and boxes of other stuff. It was easily a $40 care package.

    Its awesome that they are doing it, but I admit I'm a little envious of those massive birds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    LoneStarGal likes this.
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    97,282
    Likes Received:
    27,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tell the House democrats to quit blocking relief.
     
    drluggit and LoneStarGal like this.
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30,243
    Likes Received:
    10,549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    CAN the House Dems block relief?

    My understanding is you need BOTH Chambers to do something.
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30,243
    Likes Received:
    10,549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    CAN the House Dems block relief?
    My understanding is you need BOTH Chambers to do something.
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    97,282
    Likes Received:
    27,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, they have a majority and have voted down every relief package. The Senate has already passed theirs.
     
    LoneStarGal likes this.
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    18,372
    Likes Received:
    5,286
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If your government keeps spending money (budget deficits), eventually whoever is in charge is going to push austerity.

    You people were warned about this.
    It's your own fault. (collectively speaking)

    older thread: If we run deficits now, it means cuts in the future
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  10. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    2,850
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One of my complaints about Thanksgiving is that turkey doesn't come in normal people sizes. I don't need or want one that takes up a whole shelf in the fridge LOL. I want one that will serve 5 or 6 with no leftovers. I would just as soon not have turkey at all, but that is not my choice.

    Anyway, I feel for people who have to stand in those lines out of necessity, though I am sure there are some that are just looking for the free. At the same time, however, I am also feeling no compulsion to help out the food banks either. I am just rather pissed at society these days. `Let the government address the problem. Maybe then they will stop jerking people around for partisan political gains or people will get tired enough of the problem to throw the bums out.
     
    Sallyally, joesnagg and Spim like this.
  11. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    5,724
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    False. Every other developed country can do it but somehow we can't. Look into Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). We all have sovereign currencies.



    Debunking the deficit myth.

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  12. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good post.

    For this year were doing 2 turkey breast, the 4 -5 lb ones. Easier to cook anyway, harder to screw up.

    I see both sides on the food banks, they do great work and seem to be kicking azz without my help so I'm staying out of their way. :)

    It is frustrating seeing all those newer cars in line tho, my eyes just gravitate right there, I can't help it, total pet peeve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    Sallyally, LoneStarGal and Chrizton like this.
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30,243
    Likes Received:
    10,549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You can always buy a smaller turkey. Or even go for a Capon if you can find one.
     
  14. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    21,936
    Likes Received:
    5,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How many Americans died of acute starvation last year, who weren't in survival situations in remote areas?
     
    crank likes this.
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    18,372
    Likes Received:
    5,286
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, I see. So this thread is going to get derailed and turn into a discussion about monetary theory and MMT ?

    That's what it seems our disagreement ultimately boils down to.


    How about, just for the sake of hypothetical argument here, we assumed for the moment that MMT was not true or not applicable.
    Would you have any other arguments that would be able to hold together, in your effort to prove that capitalism was to blame and another system is needed?

    Or does your entire argument in this thread rely on MMT to save everyone?

    What I mean is, if we took that off the table, would you have anything left to argue for in this thread?

    I just want to make sure your argument isn't primarily about that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  16. joesnagg

    joesnagg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd as soon have meatloaf, never had turkey that wasn't dry as jerky no matter how it was cooked.
     
    AKS and LoneStarGal like this.
  17. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    14,852
    Likes Received:
    18,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is not the fault of capitalism. It is the fault of Big Government stopping capitalism by shutting down businesses and jobs with very little warning. People are unemployed and starving because government has prevented the practice of capitalism. At it's basic form, we are all capitalists and we trade our skills for income. Big Government took that away without reparations.

    The idea Socialists have that Even Bigger Government will solve problems is completely counter-intuitive. Government needs to get out of the way.

    If the government compels that healthy people and businesses stop producing income, as they did, then they do owe people stimulus checks, but they should have approved stimulus BEFORE they approved economic shutdowns. The federal government should have distributed money to the states, who could have distributed to counties, who could have efficiently distributed to citizens with more money going to citizens whose jobs they decided to declare "non-essential". Lockdowns were ridiculous anyway, but they should have followed relief funds.

    They also should have predicted supply disruptions, like the fact that 60% of toilet paper gets used at workplaces, restaurants and bars and only 40% in homes. We had separate distribution channels adjusted for demand on food and other products for home use versus retail and workplace use. Shut down the economy artificially and the retail shelves go bare.

    The virus is "out" and there isn't any lockdown which is going to put the genie back in the bottle. This is a mess thanks to Big Government, followed by local governments run by Democrats. Texas has no lockdowns right now, though bars and restaurants are at reduced capacity. There is no reason for people to be starving, except that every major city is run by a Democrat Mayor and they are restricting people more than the governor.

    Yes, Big Government at the federal level and Big Government in cities run by people who lean Socialist in ideology are creating the breadlines. Capitalism is not the problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    drluggit likes this.
  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    18,655
    Likes Received:
    15,580
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Isn't the premise of the thread somewhat disingenuous? The food insecurity is being artificially induced by public policy that is shutting down large parts of the economy. What did democrats think would happen?

    Democrats need to own their own handiwork.
     
    Hoosier8 and LoneStarGal like this.
  19. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    14,852
    Likes Received:
    18,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, good job Dallas Mayor Johnson. We can't have all these pesky capitalists out supporting themselves and providing jobs. Shut them down!

    upload_2020-11-20_8-2-43.png

    upload_2020-11-20_8-3-11.png

    upload_2020-11-20_8-3-42.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    AKS and drluggit like this.
  20. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    14,852
    Likes Received:
    18,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We probably don't have sovereign currencies for very long. The World Economic Forum is planing a "Great Reset" which will most likely put countries on a single electronic monetary system, completely controlled by a partnership of banksters/politicians/corporations. Yes, you will get Universal Basic Income after they wipe out smaller capitalist companies and mom&pops, and they tax everyone off their private property. They will distribute what they think we "deserve" which will likely be enough to pay the government rent on your government-provided cracker box apartment and enough food (no meat) to keep you from starving. Unless, of course, you work for the government or one of the handful of mega-corporations. Then you'll be fine. Want Socialism? You're about to get Socialism.

    Covid lockdowns are being used as "an opportunity" to get people used to being jobless and property-less when they switch most jobs to AI and Robotics. This is the "new normal" Democrats excitedly tell us about.
     
  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30,243
    Likes Received:
    10,549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think a good meatloaf is ambrosia of the gods, with rice and gravy, nothing like it.
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    30,243
    Likes Received:
    10,549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh just bloody STOP willya PLEASE

    Just WHEN did y'all just go to sleep and wake up in 1955? Socialism is DEAD, my child, it died about 50 years ago though it hung on for some time and NO country in the world really even TRIES to follow it anymore. Don't get excited, Capitalism is dead too, at least the kind of no Social Security or Healthcare get old or sick and just die that most conservatives in America seem to want. We all practice the same sort of free-market welfare statism now and the only competition is in how well we do it. We seem to be the best as long as we don't let a real nut take charge.

    Going by your post I have to ask what DO you really want? Once AI and Robotics (along with quantum computing and nanotech) takes over there really won't be any need for all this endless drudgery we've needed to survive, that's true. But it seems you really just CAN'T satisfy some people, can you. Because what it seems you'll be trying to do then is keep us all working daily forever, anything else would be SOCIALISM right?
     
  23. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    14,852
    Likes Received:
    18,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The bankers, politicians and mega-corporations are certainly the supreme capitalists. They have conspired to win it all, and will be removing capitalism for all others. The new order for the masses will be Marxism/Communism thinly veiled in the soft fluffy wrappings and verbiage of "Socialism". I expect the shift to happen as quickly as ten years or to take as long as 40 years, and yes, some of that timeline does depend on us not electing nut case globalist/capitalists like Joe Biden.
     
  24. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    love me some good meatloaf, and I've struggled with dry turkey myself, fortunately my body craves gravy so I just smother it. This year i'm changing my approach based on last years positive results.

    Last year my mother was worried that my 2nd turkey that I was cooking in an air fryer might be an issue so she made an extra breast at home the night before, cooked it up then sliced it and put it in a pan with a bunch of broth overnight, we reheated it in the oven the next day and I'll have to admit it was the best dam turkey i've had in years, dripping in juices, delicious. My fried turkey was average at best although it did make a decent tetrazzini the next day.

    This year I'm doing both of mine her way and skipping the whole bird, it will be wonderful to have them cooked the night before to free up the time and hassle involved doing it on the holiday itself.

    Now I totally want to make meatloaf tonight....
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  25. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I feel so lucky to have not been affected directly at work by all of this, I'm considered essential but I work from home a good chunk of the time anyway because I can, my wife is definitely on the essential list but that doesn't guarantee that things won't go south in the near future, especially with a Biden administration, who knows how far they will go. We've been preparing for that possibility since April just in case.

    I really really feel for those people in industries that have been singled out and are being forced to comply because they sell shoes or own a gym vs selling "essentials" like liquor and cigarettes. Its has to be so stressful to not know if next week they are going to force you to close your doors for another stretch because going broke is "for the better"
     
    LoneStarGal and James California like this.

Share This Page