Far-right activists detained at UK border before Britain First rally

Right now the malevolent group is Muslim, because they through their very numbers and migrations are the ones pushing for new territory at the eventual expense of others, and because of the negative and darkest teachings of Mohammed that spur them ever onward. Most of the population movement into the US has been more positive; the violence against Indians was a reaction to the pushback from a people that finally reacted against the lifestyle of a more concentrated population that had different land use objectives, not a religiously driven one

IMO Bernie is an idiot that would have completely destroyed the US. He was essentially a one issue crusader, and his issue was to punish producers for the excesses of a tiny, exclusive and manipulative population segment that no longer even considers itself American.

 

What those in the West are "getting into" is a safer place to live. The whole slant of your thread is to demonize those who don't want their nations turned into Syrias, Turkeys, Beruits, Yemens and other nasty Islamic stinkholes. The amount of Islamic terror in the West so eclipses the few acts of anti-Muslim violence----that they pale to insignificance.

I'd not want Muslims here at all. If they are not here, it's much harder for them to kill me.

About half the Muslims in the world support their terrorism, or are indifferent to it. Not good odds
https://freethoughtblogs.com/taslim...11womens-oppressionsharia-lawshonor-killings/

 

That's the way I roll. I notice illogic and respond to it.

 

Is it logical to comment on a group such as Britain First who you have never heard of?

 

This however is a very uninformed statement.

It was about taking their land, just like the Zionists are doing in Israel. You have proved to be a very aggressive people, even if you do try and give a good spiel to your people that you are the good and everyone else the evil.

However I think the issues are more to do with the US being a plutocracy. I think it is sad that you have lost your fine ideals because you did have them, you just have not lived up to them even if you still mouth the words as if you had.

Have you heard of Tocqueville He was a political theorist working on democracy. He believed that the American MC would give up on political awareness, they would become so blinded by the comforts and opportunities which surrounded them that they would forget about the need to keep politically active and aware which a democracy depends on. The MC is essential for a Plutocracy as they give it credence - that of course being a MC which is not politically active or aware but rather one which accepts its lower position to those in charge of the Plutocracy because it is getting a good deal. Your middle class is getting smaller and your working class is getting weaker. Changes need to come and will come and the choices you make will determine your future. At the moment you are going along the hatred of the other route. There are far happier options. As far as I can see your particular option just binds your chains. You allow those with power and privilege to keep their power and privilege just so that you can be better than 'the other'. That is all you get. Tends to lead to war and massacres. There are other ways.

I would be lying if I said I had studied him Basically I know that he was saying where the problems were, that he is not a racist, was prepared to deal in a more realistic, less prejudiced way to the Israel/Palestine issue and that sort of thing. He was different because he saw the problems which were there. He knows you are a plutocracy and he wants to bring you back to a democracy and he is not a war monger.

Just like when things were somewhat similar in the 30's - long term unemployment, blaming it on globalism, the elite including politicians having little trust, we need to change our way of working economically if we want to bring things back to a place where we can have a democracy and get rid of neo liberalism and Corporate Power. That is the issue as far as I can see that needs the real work and the most simply first answer is one that was forever being suggested, get firms working as workers co-ops. The Labour Party in the UK has apparently decided to take this on. When a business is first going bankrupt before anyone else has a chance to buy it, the workers will be offered it. If they want to buy the Government will give them a loan. Most of the work they will be able to do themselves but if need be they can bring in professionals who they will pay. When technology improves as it is going to by leaps and bounds then rather than laying off half the workforce and putting a bigger pad of bills in the bosses pocket, the people can work less hours for the same pay. In addition due to the factory or whatever being in their home town, unlike the Corporate bosses who live hundreds of miles away or even the other side of the world, what happens to the environment will matter to the co-op members so they will take care of it and their disposal of wastes. That is just the beginning of one idea about how to create a future which has hope for us all and within which we can live in peace.

We're all going to have to make some choices soon about how we are going to move. A few months ago, Britain felt very like the States and it looked like we were both going into some long period of increasing inequality where some people's lives would be little better than slaves and others would have a very good time. Would Britain ever become so blinded that enough people would go after 'the other'. With no way out of what I have just described it is not impossible but after what happened in the last election and the Labour Party under Corbyn (our Sanders) catching people's imagination as well as things which have happened since the election, for instance the Governments deal with the DUP and Grenfell, I think the UK has half a chance of moving in the opposite direction and getting our democracy back. Long walk which still has many pitfalls, but a bit of hope.

 

No, it's not, This is your personal opinion, not the definition of anti Zionism. Anti Zionism is simply the opposition to Zionism, whatever the reasons. For instance, the Neturei Karta type of anti Zionism is profoundly and exclusively religious, not political.

Yes.

No. The comparison is wrong. Keeping in mind that Zionism is Jewish nationalism, it's more like you detest only those Chinese who want to live in China, but love those who do not.

Anti Zionism is basically antisemitism because it demonizes a very large group of Jews. Millions. Hatred of Jews is antisemitism. Dividing the Jewish nation into "good anti-Zionist Jews" and "bad Zionist Jews" is not a proof of lack of racism. The accent apparently shifts from ethnicity to ideology, but the mindset and the methods are the same.
https://isgap.org/flashpoint/antisemitism-and-anti-zionism-same-idea-new-cloak/

Why and how manage some people to read what isn't there? The left wasn't mentioned in my post. Only the far-left. No, it's not the same thing.

 

Ok, I will except your point, it is not just political.

Please refer to your answer above, are you suggesting the Neturei Karta are antisemetic? It blows your own argument out of the water! Anybody who is against Jewish nationalism hates Jews?
Clearly antisemitism does not equate with antisemitism, by your own definitions.

You did however mention Jeremy Corbyn who is pro democracy, has nothing against whites or christians and finds the kind of generalisation based on race or religion abohrant.

 

Yes.

There's a link in my previous comment. Read it. Or open a separate thread if the subject interests you. We are off topic here.

 

I'm not so sure Corbyn is pro democracy.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a...eft-anti-semite-jeremy-corbyn/article/2624883

 

Your definition of Zionism, Anti Zionism is simply the opposition to Zionism. Zionism is Jewish Nationalism. Clearly all Jews are not in favour of Jewish Nationalism. You wish to redefine antisemitism to meet your own political aims. Antisemitism is a hatred of Jews not Jewish Nationalism.

You are the one wishing to redefine antisemitism as anyone opposed to Jewish Nationalism, I suggest you start a thread if you wish to.

You really think the Neturei Karta hate Jews!

 

You defined Corbyn as far left. By doing so you defined what you meant by the Far Left and that includes many people who do not follow what you described.

I note you also believe in guilt by association!

 

Muslims feel the Middle East is exclusively for Muslims, despite the Jews and Christians being there first, and any country not under Islamic control must be wiped from the map.

 

Islamic Radicals feel the middle east is exclusively for Islamic Radicals despite Jews, Christians and other Muslims being there first. This is why so many Islamic Radicals are murdering their fellow Muslims all over the middle east.

 

Alan Dershowitz finds everyone antisemetic - that is any time at all he calls them it - except Steve Bannon, then he thinks you should take care with the use of the term antisemitism Can't remember where that came from only about a week ago. There was a video of him acting in both situations. It was amusing.

Zionism is a political ideology. As you said before many Jews are not Zionist and many non Jews are Zionists..

It is not about whether you like people or not. There has been a big attempt going on for the length of time there was the witch hunt on in Labour trying to make the two the same but they are not. It is true that White Nationalists not at home tend to use the word Zionist instead on Jew. We had some here. They are very easy to spot but antisemitism and antizionism are not the same thing.

 

No one claimed 'all' Jews favor Zionism, but I think one can assume most, if not the vast majority do agree with Israel's existence.
So what would you call someone who hates the vast majority of Jews?

Very possibly, yes: and consider anyone but themselves heretics. Like ISIS.
ie, what are they doing at a Holocaust denial conference?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/15/nyregion/15rabbi.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=ult...wuHUAhWE4D4KHZk-BGMQ_AUICygC&biw=1163&bih=539

They are the Jews that anti-semites love and use as cover.

 

Illogic is repulsive wherever it is presented as rational thought.

 

Glad you're happier now regarding the direction things are taking in England. I agree workers' control over their own tools is important.

IMO every ethnic or political group likes to feel justified in what it is doing...and from what I have observed, that extends to those in developing oligarchies as well, or possibly even more so..

 

You don't like Dershowitz? How about the moderate British left?

From Labour's own Harry Fletcher, former adviser who was very close to Corbyn:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rry-fletcher-sunday-times-op-ed-a7697456.html

(The above quote first appeared in The Times, but I gave the link to the article in the Independent because the Times article is behind a paywall)

More about Jeremy dances-with-terrorists Corbyn:

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/06/06/corbyn-cant-defend-us-against-his-friends/

 

I doubt it has a lot to do with it. Maybe a little.

 

Pisa's argument is simple, if you are not in favour of Jewish Nationalism you are an antisemite. He attempts to redefine antisemitism, no need for all this smoke and mirrors.

 

So funny, what you mean is, these people do not slavishly support Jewish Nationalism they are therefore antisemitic. Thankfully the antisemetic card is losing its credibility, the UK voted in massive numbers for Corbyn and Labour. All the slurs did not work!

 

Nice deflection, carry on!

 

Opposition to Jewish nationalism - i.e. to the existence of the Jewish state - has its roots in the belief that Jews wanting to be Jews and acting like Jews can only do wrong. Every argument of every anti Zionist out there is based on this assumption: Jews who cling to their own culture, customs, religion and country can only be bad people. Bring me any anti Zionist text, I'll unearth for you the ideological roots as stated.

I have no political aims.

Yes. They see the rest of us as heretics who stand in God's way.

You must understand that a non-observant Jew, even if not an atheist, is for the ultra orthodox a far greater abomination than a pagan. We are all non-observant to the Neturei Karta.

There is however a significant difference between the antisemitism of Neturei Karta and the traditional brand: while the average antisemite hates Jews for being Jews, the Neturei Karta antisemites hate Jews for not being Jewish enough.

 

Nope, there are many reasons for disagreeing with Jewish Nationalism as there are for disagreeing with other nationalist movements, none of which mean you hate the people. Remember you are trying to change the meaning of antisemitism to mean anti Jewish nationalism. Focus on that!

Again your one argument is that if someone does not support jewish nationalism they hate jews, even if they are jewish, even if they are more jewish than you!

Now stop derailing this thread with your illogical, unfounded paranoia!

Anything to say about Britain First or the antisemetic preacher who is the subject of the post.

 

I dont know about Pisa but you convinced me, there is a diffrence between anti-sematism and anti zionism.

Now that we sorted that between us, the diffrence I see is in anti-sematism one excludes a group of ppl by the millions, preventing them from basic rights on account of the ethnic group they were born to.

Anti zionism on the other hand excludes a whole diffrent group by the millions, preventing them from basic rights on account of the national group they were born to as long as they wish to continue living in it.

The diffrence is huge because the gallant liberals in Europe grant a chance to Jews to escape their "wrath" if they withdraw from their right for self determination and indipendance while the evil anti semites will hate Jews forever.

Unfortunately for you all, we in Israel are cold hearted bastards that dont care for either group affections.