Feminist activist in Iran sentenced to 24 years in prison for removing hijab.

Then eventually end up with a chancellor who is not only terrible for your country but nobody is sure if it's a man or a woman.

 

People who don't understand the socio-economic undercurrent behind Iran's culture war (which I tried to highlight in an earlier message) will often be surprised by the kind of things which are allowed for women in Iran -- and things which the regime at least tries not to allow.

On the road with Iran’s women truckers
Channel 4 News
Published on Jan 5, 2019

 

There's even less excuse today with our scientific knowledge for a belief in an Imaginary Friend who will help you cheat death if you follow all the rules in a little book.

 

Who wants a dictatorial state or a theocracy with an Imaginary Friend? IMO, we would be better off if the lot of you, left and right, would MYOB.

 

Issues masked by religion have little to do with religion often and that is especially true in Iran. I say this because those who imagine that proving what should be easy to prove otherwise, on the intellectual level, namely that there is no scripture in any of the existing religious traditions that hold answers to what people are looking for doesn't at the end respond to what fuels the cultural wars. The real issue is about two things, fundamentally: first, socio-economic class. In Iran, the poorer and working class people find religion a vehicle to enforce rules which at least hide some of the differences that would be more obvious when it comes to economic class. Second, it has to do with who benefits and who loses from unfettered sexual freedoms. On this point, the break up of the institution of the family in not just the west, but even in countries like Iran which are experiencing high divorce rates and even many cases where young people choose to remain single and not get married, raises fundamental questions as to the way societies have organized themselves throughout history.

 

I reminded of an Iranian student I had who parents left Iran because she and her younger sister would have a better life in a free country. Her father told me he couldn't stand to see his daughters forced to wear a hijab. She wanted to become a doctor and probably made it given she was valedictorian.

 

Thank you for your sexist comment.

 

Nothing at all unusual about that story: for the middle/upper middle classes in Iran, one of the main issues which leads them to want to immigrate is precisely the hijab rules in Iran. But while I sympathize with that as I am ultimately from that same class of Iranians, unlike many of them, I am not going to pretend the other side consists only of religious bigots and the like. The other side includes a lot of Iran's most vulnerable people, who are truly under strain and stress and their plight needs as much (if not more) attention, as people in Iran who are otherwise quite well off.

 

Where is that ?

 

I don't think so. Sobo has gotten to the heart of the matter.

 

Maybe they don't have a lot of mass shootings there - but since they don't have a free press, and the government controls
the flow of information, how would we ever know?

 

That is your conclusion where you want to be.

 

Organized religion also provides lower economic classes with protection against starving, especially in poorer countries where a weaker state may not be interested in or capable of providing food security.

Women with their own income are less often forced by circumstance to live with a man, either to support them or their children. I'm convinced most women would prefer being a parent if circumstances are right, and that most women prefer co-parenting, more often with a man than other women.

 

You fellas need to stop trashing women who want equal rights, especially by equating women who wants their rights with radical feminists.

 

So well motivated. lol

 

Why do we need to stop trashing women who want equal rights?

 

That wasn't my argument. Thanks for trying.

 

It is not. My freedom and liberty and survival in Iran would be doubtful. I live in the State of Texas in the United States and there is no place on earth I would rather be.

You have avoided answering the question, which of course, is your right to do. But you made a statement in your first post in this thread which was somewhat ambiguous, but seemed to indicate that living in Iran would be preferred to living in the U.S. It would bolster your credibility if you would answer the question:

If you were given a choice, would you prefer to live in Iran or the United States?

A follow-up question is:

Do you currently live in the Middle East?

 

As someone who lived in the United States, practiced law there, and moved back to Iran, can I answer your question?
There are more Iranians who go to the opposite route, but that doesn't add anything to the issues being debated here. While, comparatively, the US is not economically nearly as better off compared to Iran than people assume, it is definitely still a wealthier country. For young Iranians especially, it is still a place which offers them greater hope of a better future than a country that is being sanctioned and isolated from the rest of the world by political agendas. And, in terms of 'freedoms', the US is still a comparatively 'freer' than Iran. Especially, in social liberties, where Iran does have certain rules which although mischaracterized for political reasons, nonetheless do infringe on the liberties of certain classes in Iran (especially the westernized middle and upper middle classes).

 

If that's the law in Iran a woman is a damned fool to take her hijab off, and especially if there is a chance the government is watching her. But maybe her uncle turned her in.

The USA should not cotton to the primitive Iran shethole in any way.

 

It shows the lvl of barbarism in alleged "civilized" parts of the world. That puts things in perspective in how barbaric it is when you're made to wear a piece of thin cloth partially over ones head.

 

It wasn't my argument that it was your argument. Thanks for trying.

If you wish to deny my supposition you just have to, with a straight face, say you'd say anything even remotely like this if the GOP did anything even half as anti-women as Iran:

Didn't think so.

 

No one is "free" to go out in public as they wish. Every society has its own rules and cultural norms on the issue. Under most state nudity laws, you can't show your breasts if you are a woman in public, even though you can show your chest if you are a man. And every place you go has its own fashion rules and regulations on attire. The issue is always whether those rules accord with a society's actual standards. When they don't, they become oppressive. When they do, forcing the opposite just because that is the fashion elsewhere, is oppressive. In Iran's case, the problem with its hijab rules is that they don't follow the cultural preferences of a certain class of people in certain areas of the country. The problem isn't even exclusive to women, even if felt more strongly on women than men. But there are even rules that affect how men are supposed to dress or even cut their hair. These rules aren't about 'religion'. It is part of a 'culture war' that has economic and political underpinnings.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...ernment-issues-style-guide-for-mens-hair.html
Iran government issues style guide for men's hair
Ponytails are out but side-partings and Elvis quiffs are in. Not the latest fashion advice from a celebrity magazine, but a list of acceptable male hairstyles issued by the Iranian government.

But on the issues that I find more significant, I actually prefer the attitude of Iran's theocracy to what you find among religious zealots in the US. Here is one example and I can give more.
https://www.nielsenlab.org/2016/02/teaching-evolution-in-the-middle-east/

 

Another issue that is fought tooth and nail in America's culture wars relates to abortion. While Iran also prohibits abortion after the first 4 months of pregnancy (when according to Iran's theologians, the fetus then develops a soul), the abortion rules in Iran (and even in Saudi Arabia!!) are more lax than what many Christian groups would prefer in the US.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/margi...-is-less-restrictive-than-the-one-in-alabama/
The Iranian Law on Abortion is Less Restrictive than the One in Alabama.

 

We would know since they pin it on Israel.