Finland Can Teach the World How to Stand Up to Russia

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by litwin, Jun 1, 2017.

Tags:
  1. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    what ´d be Finland today, if it has not achieved its incandescence from Mongolian khan juchi project - ulus of juchi (Muscovy) ? why its so huge deference between Finnish and Muscovite parts of Karelia ? can we call it border between Europe and Africa(afro - asia)? should Finns join NATO or Muscovy is so weak today that Finland doesn´t need NATO anymore ?

    "
    ....

    What has largely been a distant threat to many countries in the West has been a matter of life and death in the northeastern corner of the European Union. For Finland, which shares a 1,300-kilometer (800-mile) border with Russia, ....

    “Russia is a permanent dilemma for Finland -- a problem without a solution that it needs to manage,”
    said Rene Nyberg, a retired diplomat who once served as ambassador to Moscow and Berlin. “It’s not theory to us like it is to, say, Belgium or Portugal.”
    .... Finland’s 100 years of history now risks repeating. How it has managed to stay independent all this time could hold valuable lessons. Russia’s annexation of Crimea has raised tensions on the continent to their highest level since the end of the Cold War and the U.S. election of President Donald Trump is raising doubts about the post-World War II political order.

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whom many now regard as the unofficial leader of Europe, underlined the stakes this week by saying that Europe now has to stand up for itself. Trump alarmed fellow North Atlantic Treaty Organization members by declining to explicitly reaffirm his commitment to Article 5, NATO’s pledge of collective defense. He has repeatedly complained about the fact that most NATO allies are not honoring a promise to devote at least 2 percent of their gross domestic products to defense spending.
    ...

    A civil war that pitted socialist Reds against non-socialist Whites in 1918 left almost 40,000 people dead, while more than 93,000 Finns died fighting two wars against the Soviet Union between 1939 and 1945, according to the National Archives. The peace accords of 1947 meant ceding about a 10th of its land to the east and paying onerous war reparations by delivering costly industrial goods to its neighbor in the east.

    That’s a complaint that would resonate in Finland. While it has officially stayed out of the alliance in deference to Russia, it’s one of the few European nations that plan to boost defense spending above that threshold. Finland is in the process of replacing its aging fleet of F/A-18 Hornet fighter jets with next generation F/X military aircraft, with the project expected to cost 5 billion to 10 billion euros.


    In the decades that followed, Finland focused on remaining outside the Warsaw Pact, seizing every opportunity to move closer to the West without angering Moscow. Deference to the Soviet Union, in the form of a policy known as “Finlandization,” became a pragmatic survival strategy. The country’s “special relationship” with the USSR was manifested in, for example, Moscow’s influence over Finnish cabinet appointments and self-censorship by local policy makers and the media.

    Such acquiescence helps explain why Finland never joined NATO and only became a member of the EU in 1995, alongside Austria and Sweden.
    “Security policy perspectives permeate Finnish thinking -- for a good reason,” Nyberg said. “Whereas for Sweden, EU membership was primarily an economic question, for Finland it was a security issue first and foremost. It brought Finland into the sphere of Western solidarity. Before that, our position could always be contested.”

    The Future
    Finland has been intensifying its dealings with other Western states since the illegal annexation of Crimea, said Martin Kragh, head of the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs.

    Although its defense forces are already fully compliant with NATO and Prime Minister Juha Sipila reiterated on Wednesday that Finland retains the option of seeking membership, it’s unlikely to join the organization, however.

    Finland’s relationship with NATO is like “smoking without inhaling,” Nyberg said.

    The next step is even more cooperation with the West, especially with Sweden and other Nordic nations. Their heads of state -- the kings and queens of Sweden, Denmark and Norway, as well as Iceland’s president -- will descend upon Helsinki on Thursday to celebrate the centenary and rub elbows.
    "https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...le-has-finns-ready-for-a-tenser-global-future
     
  2. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,903
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Keep repeating, maybe one day Gediminas himself will arise from dead and will slap common sence into your head.
     
  3. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    4,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The only country that has repaid the United States for loans in both WWI and WWII -
    FINLAND.
     
    Derideo_Te, zoom_copter66 and litwin like this.
  4. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    they pay always , what do you think about Finnish (3,5 million people ) last man stand against the biggest army ever (koba´s red hordes?)
     
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    35,638
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1300 km of border in an area that is just mostly hostile to human life.
    A border where its "highways" are at best 2 lanes as asfalt.

    It's safe,... cause nobody wants to go there in general.
    it is ranked around the 200th place of most densely populated countries.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  6. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    have you ever been on the Finnish side ? and why in this case koba wanted to occupy Finland so many years?
     
  7. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My great grandfather fought them Ruskis in the war. :)
     
    litwin likes this.
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,059
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lesson for Finland.
    Be The Switzerland of the Nordics.
    Do NOT challenge the Russians nor invite alliances with those who would.
    Be The Switzerland of the Nordics.
     
  9. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,059
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My grandfather was last heard of at the siege of Leningrad. Aided by <ta-da> Finland.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    35,638
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is what it is. It has a rather hostile climate. It's hardly populated because of it. And there is as good as no infrastructure towards Russia. There are 3rd world countries with better infrastructure to it's neighbors in climates much more favorable.
     
  11. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  12. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Finland among the best in the world | Statistics Finland - Tilastokeskus
    stat.fi/ajk/satavuotiassuomi/suomimaailmankarjessa_en.html
    May 15, 2017 - Finnish women's gender equality in working life is the 4th best in the world. ... European Commission, Quality of Life in European Cities 2015.
     
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    35,638
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
  14. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    10,156
    Likes Received:
    3,460
    Trophy Points:
    113

    How much do the Russians still owe us from lend lease during Ww2? Or did they say they paid in "blood", or so Khrushchev said?
     
    litwin likes this.
  15. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,059
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The French said the same about WW1 loans.
    Nothing new here. Move along. Goose and Gander Rule.
    And wasn't the Marshall Plan a "freebie" for them?
    The USSR got no Marshall Plan although it suffered way more.

    What part do I have incorrect.
     
  16. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    658
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Apparently you do not know the conditions of lend lease.
    1. All the materials, including transport, etc that have been supplied to USSR or its allies and destroyed during WW2 are not subject to payoff.
    Whatever was left that had not been destroyed has been returned to the US.
     
  17. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    this how everyone must stand against ulus of juchi:

     
  18. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    43,996
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not quite. Great Britain repaid all our Lend-Lease debts, with interest, in 2006.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stm
    You're correct about the WW1 debt though, although Britain is still owed billions itself in connection with that conflict. None of those debts, owed or otherwise, have been serviced since 1934.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  19. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    17,613
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And Sweden has reinstituted the draft because of Russia. I guess they think holding the Russians off an extra 8 hours should they actually decide to come will make all the difference in the world. At least they backhandedly acknowledge the reason they exist is because of the US since their reasoning is that the US may not be as reliable at defending them now that Trump is President.
     
  20. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you mean your grandfather was a fascist?
     
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What makes you to draw that conclusion?
     
  22. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    The formal logic only. Russians fought fascists. Your grandfather fought Russians. Therefore your grandfather was a fascist. As you know, Sweden supported Hitler a lot. For Example you gave to fascists iron ore, ball bearings, etc.
     
  23. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    no anti- fascist, sovok was a pure fascist empire

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

     
    Ritter likes this.
  24. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First of all, it was my great-grandfather and not my grandfather. Secondly, he was Finnish and protected his country (and all of Western Europe) from the disgusting Commies (probably in the army with legal compulsjon though). Thirdly, I doubt he was Facist, but if he was, I don't really care. :D
     
    litwin likes this.
  25. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,164
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

Share This Page