First century church may have numbered 400,000... did the majority convert to Islam?

I guess it was about two years ago that I ran into evidence that the Palestinian people are largely the descendants of the second century Messianic Jewish community....... who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba revolt against Rome..... and thus were allowed to stay in the Roman province of Judaea after the revolt was crushed.

I have noticed that this information has altered the way that I view the Israeli - Palestinian conflict ..... has affected the way that I pray about this situation...… and has been a subject that I have gone over and over again in my mind.

 

Mr. Tsvi Misinai is the leading proponent of this theory:

Tsvi Misinai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai

 

It seems that they didn't get any bonus points from their favorite deity.

 

Um, what kind of effect is that supposed to have, do you think?

 

It has always been my contention that the Palestinians are the true descendants of the Biblical Jews and Christians. Their ancestors either converted to Islam, were killed, or remained their faith but paid the jizya.

The diaspora is just accepted without hard evidence. The Jews of the Bible remained near Israel-proper even if they were kicked out.

 

This is exactly the implications of an article by James Hider entitled "A Tragic Misunderstanding."

http://www.thesanhedrin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=807

 

It never made sense to me to see a bunch of blonde Jews calling Israel their homeland. I've always felt the Jews of Europe, Central Asia, and even places like China and India are Jews by faith only. They are not genetically tied to Israel.

But it makes sense to me that the Palestinians - be they Muslim, Jew, or Christian - are the modern day descendants of the Israelities. They look the part.

 

I know that my personally having such an extreme reaction to this information shows that I personally suffer from some fairly serious biases.

In the past I just didn't have the kind of attitude toward the Palestinian people that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus taught that we Christians should have. In my mind I saw Palestinians as the most unthankful….. angriest…….. most violent group of people on earth.

Finding out that as many as 86% of them are probably the genetic descendants of the first and second century followers of Cephas/ Peter and the other disciples….. kind of blew my mind!

Perhaps this information could also have a positive effect on other people whose understanding of the Christian Bible is much less than what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus advocated?

 

I believe something similar as well.

 

Actually……… philosophers accurately state that Adam and Eve actually "fell upward" rather than downward as so many tend to think.

In a similar manner every angel- spiritual being- soul….. who has incarnated as a Palestinian at this time….. knew that they would be tempted to go into the way of hatred and anger in a rather extreme manner….. but they also knew that the Ancient of Days the FAther/ The G-d of Abraham/ YHWH/ HaShem/ Allah was planning the most astonishing epic reality film series to ever be produced…… and they are stars in the production.

There are certain things about Islam that would tend to make it highly attractive to the eighth, ninth, and tenth century Messianic Jewish community of Judaea/ The Holy Land.


http://www.godspeaceplan.blogspot.ca/2014/07/gods-peace-plan-for-holy-land-peace.html

…

 

Several years ago I read that Rabbi Akiva advised Simon Bar Kochba that as soon as he got rid of the Romans that he would have to kick out those Messianic Jews as well. That is a pretty good reason to not join in the revolt……. if you already know that you are so disliked that you are next on the expulsion list?! I suppose this may not have happened though until after the Messianic Jewish community made it clear that they were intent on not taking up the sword?!

Something similar has occurred over these past decades as applications for Israeli citizenship by Messianic Jews has tended to be rejected….. even if that Messianic Jew feels no need to attempt to convince Rabbinic Jews to believe exactly as he or she does.

 

There is little to no evidence of a Jewish diaspora out of the Middle East into Europe.
What we do have is large evidence of the Khazars converting to Judaism around the 8th century and slowing moving into Europe.

The Ashkenazi and Jews of Central Asia are mostly of Khazar blood, not Israelite. But in order to justify the creation of Israel, it was deemed that the Jews of Europe magically became Middle Eastern simply for having the same faith as the Middle Eastern Israelities.

 

What do you think of the theory though that later on as many Islamic nations went through phases of being violent…. that Jews who felt threatened fled to the Khazar nation where they were accepted?

I suspect that the same would be true when pogroms against Jews were especially violent in "Christian" Europe?

So…. over several centuries would not a high percentage of genetic Jew not tend to intermarry with the Khazar Jewish community?

 

For the sake of accuracy, I will define Israelite-blooded Jews as "Jews," and European Jews as Ashenzazi ;

While it is possible that some Jews fled towards the Kharaz region due to Islamic aggression, that wouldn't account for the sheer number and volume of Khazar Jews in the region after the 10th century.

Look at this map below



I highly doubt that Jews in the southwestern part of that map would move as far northwest to settle into the Khazar region.

I could see Jews in Derbent, for example, moving north into the Khazar region, but I don't find good reason for the Jews of Bhagadad to move that north. That distance in that time would be a much more difficult move than today.

And that map still doesn't even show the Middle Eastern nations in and around Israel. Those Jews most likely stayed put.

What I do think happened is that massess of Khazar convertd to Judiasm in the 8th centurty, and by the 10th century slowly made their way into Europe. They are geographically prime to do so. They then mixed with the Europeans and today, they are bascially Europeans of the Jewish faith.

That's just my opinion. What do you think ?

 

You could be right….. but Robert Mendelson's writing on this does seem to imply that large numbers of ethnic Jews may have fled there.

http://www.godspeaceplan.blogspot.ca

[/QUOTE]

 

Now, I don't claim to be free from biases, but I wouldn't have thought decent matters much when it comes to... whatever you're referring to. While there's no doubt in the fact that there are violent people in Palestine, there is no merit in just hating them and then going about ones business. Nobody is angry without reason. Sometimes, there are bad reasons, but that doesn't mean just thinking bad things about them is solving any issues. This is true for everyone, regardless of decent, race, religion, political alignment (with respect to other people or to me), wealth, safety, shoe size and so on and so on. Anyone who doesn't think they'd done the same in the same situation simply hasn't thought far enough.

Normally, I'd also throw in something about the inhomogeneity about the people as well (it would be presumptuous to think that everyone agrees with whatever wacko gets himself onto the news), but I'll leave that for another discussion.

 

These theories championed by Mr. Tsvi Misinai have stuck a chord with many members of the newly formed Jerusalem Sanhedrin who firmly believe in the fulfillment of the prophecy regarding the "restoration of the lost tribes of Israel."

There is a truly interesting reference to this event in the Catholic Bible…..


http://www.drbo.org/chapter/26048.htm
1] "And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch…………….Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob."

 

Oh so this is another one of those ideas where claim to land is dictated in scripture and prophecies? Then I have nothing to add and will go away.

 

Perhaps it will help if you and I think about scripture and prophecies……… as concepts for reality films with deep psychological and emotional and educational value, produced by beings composed of a more fundamental form of energy?

If…. a being composed of a more fundamental form of energy…… actually did plan and choreograph a series of Big Bang type events….. culminating in the the most recent Big Bang of 13.72 billion years or so ago……. would the being/ beings/ Beings/Being…… composed of more fundamental energy….. have any legal or ethical right whatsoever to choose a family of people to play one sort of role…… and another family of people to play a generally somewhat different role in these films?

Would "Fundamental Energy Executive Producer" gave any rights to make judgments……. as to how the scenes worked out?

Would it be at least somewhat ethical for higher life forms than us humans….. such as aliens and UFO's…..(assuming the reality of their existence)…. have any duty or freedom of choice to feel it was ethical to cooperate with the wishes of the "Fundamental Energy Reality Film Producer" and/or the "somewhat more fundamental energy executive producer?"

Please keep in mind that even Richard Dawkins Ph. D. would not dogmatically rule out the existence of UFO or alien life forms that may have evolved to a place where their technology was so much greater than what we once had that they may have played a role in human evolution…… or perhaps even in our history????!

http://www.politicalforum.com/other-off-topic-chat/338698-will-ufos-assist-bringing-peace-world.html
Will UFO's assist in bringing peace to the world?????
I personally am now wide open to this possibility...... but I sure wasn't ready for the idea until I read this part of the NDE account of Christian Andreason:

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

 

This is a confusing post, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. A producer may be allowed to do this or that, but he would not be allowed to require that the actors or any real life humans go through whatever situation the characters are in (depending on the situations in question). To induce the suffering of humans is considered immoral, to induce the suffering of hypothetical characters, as those in most movies, is not.

As for aliens, we have no evidence to rule them out, so we'd be correct in not ruling them out. While anything not ruled out (and a fair few things that are ruled out) can deserve some contemplation, it doesn't warrant any more belief or power over our world views than anything else of the same level of evidence. It's all well and good to say "what if this happened?", but as soon as you try to replace dodgy rhetoric with shaping a believable picture of the world, you have to rely on better arguments, or you'll be believing all kinds of things.

 

Yes….. I have indeed came to the place where I do believe in "all kinds of things." I am now certain that each of the major belief systems are not entirely inaccurate…… they seem to go off track as soon as they understand their own pattern of belief to be far superior to all other types of spirituality?!

http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html

 

Well, all belief systems are made by people who have a basic idea of how to make knowledge, how else could they figure anything out at all? It is of no surprise that they would stumble upon a truth or two from just not being daft. Similarly, there are many different ways of looking at the world, and categorise concepts and so on, and we learn lots of these from our surroundings, so it is also expected that if we get some kind of philosophy from far off, it's likely to be dissimilar to ours while still being a semi-valid way of looking at the world.

Consequentially, the idea that there are truths and angles to be gained from many religions is almost undeniable. The question then becomes how to live with that knowledge. To me, it seems we should steal as much as we see fit from different religions, but not make any assumptions about its veracity based on anything but reliable reasons for belief. Ideas and perspectives we can steal as we see fit, but claims and truths need to give reasons for us to believe in them. Most such reasonable beliefs have already been incorporated in the modern global world view, and the ones that have not have have not done so because they are at odds with current paradigms, making the issue not gathering ideas but figuring out how to deal with the ideas we have.

For instance, several religions include some meditation-like concepts, which fails to get incorporated into modern thought, not because we don't know about it, but because it doesn't fit with our idea of time management. Certain concepts of spirituality falls under the same umbrella.

 

Good example.

I do attempt to meditate but the ten minutes or so that I get at one time to do it are unlikely to produce anything like.......

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers08.html

The Trigger of Extreme Meditation: Joni Maggi's Near-Death Experience

 

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. The Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism. He even picked two pagan holidays for the dates of the birth and resurrection of his idea of Christ. He omitted some basic scripture which ran contrary to his ideas. The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest entities in the world while 12,000 children suffer and die from malnutrition or starvation each day.

Sistine Chapel Art:
(click image to enlarge)

 

The diaspora was in full swing 500 years before Christ.. Palestine couldn't support a large population.. There were more Jews living outside of Israel and Palestine than inside. There were large Jewish communities in Alexandria, Rome, Anatolia and Elephantine Island, Egypt.. Plus, there were Jews in Damascus, Syria, and what is now Iran and Iraq.