For pro life supporters of the creation of new criminal statutes

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by btthegreat, May 17, 2022.

  1. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I do NOT WANT THIS TO DEBATE LEGALIZED ABORTION, or the constitutional right of privacy, PLEASE. We have plenty of those threads. Nor am I interested in what you want to do with the abortion providers (the contract 'killer'), or 'co-conspirators' who aide and abet. Thats outside the scope of this thread and serves only to derail or deflect from the penalty you are imposing on this woman.

    I thought we might find out precisely what your proposal would be to punish women who commit to premeditated and orchestrated plan leading directly to the death of an unborn person. Let's find your maximum minimum sentencing guidelines for a federal or state newly created crime of inducing their abortion through a chemical, pharmaceutical or physical procedure. I hope to learn if you want having an abortion to be a misdemeanor low level crime with token jail time, or a penalty commensurate with a manslaughter or third degree murder rap, or maybe an aggravating sentencing factor to first degree homicide and a capital offense. Exactly what the range for years incarceration you would oblige judges to sentence these criminals for. Here's some possible options to choose from.

    Maybe you see it as a misdemeanor mitigated by duress, worthy of at most a year incarceration, fine and some community service
    Are we talking ...
    A. no jail time $500 to $1000 fine plus 100 hours of community service.
    B. 6 months to a yr incarceration, $5000 to 25,000 and maybe 300 hours of community service.
    C. 1 year incarceration, $10,000 to 50,000 in fines, and 500 hours of community service

    Or a serious crime requiring judges to throw a heavier book
    A . 18 months to 5 years
    B. 5 years to twenty of confinement
    C. 15 years to life
    D. Would you call abortion an aggravating factor of first degree murder, and demand either a life sentence or the death penalty?

    If you are a real softy on this offense, I suppose you could treat it like a parking infraction, and offer just a ticket with a choice to appear or just send in the money.

    If there is a 'seeking or attempting an abortion' crime for those who never actually had the procedure what are its penalties?

    Do you see a conviction of any of these abortion laws above, going towards their habitual offender status under Three Strikes law?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I appreciate the topic, but unfortunately, your options would only apply to the unlucky few that couldn't afford a plane ticket. Any penalty would only make a woman, dying of infection from her back room abortion, hesitant to seek medical attention.
     
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    various ideas have already been propounded in other threads

    Maybe send her off to a pro-life reeducation camp, or make her wear a T-shirt that tells everyone else what she did.

    Maybe implement a limit of only 1 elective abortion per person. If she goes beyond that, she might have to be a surrogate for an infertile couple if she wants to avoid jail time.

    She could wear a pregnancy suit around in public for 9 months and then be subject to "simulated childbirth", involving electric shocks that cause uncomfortable pelvic contractions, similar to birth.

    A lot of women get abortions for pure vanity and temporary bodily aesthetic reasons, so this would prevent women from thinking they could use a termination as an escape. (She will have to appear "pregnant" whether she aborts or not)

    Another idea in another thread was require her to be an organ donor if she aborts, which would only be fair because her dead body is no more of a person than her fetus was.

    Another idea that involves no punishment is simply allow a pro-life council to select posters that have to be hung up on the wall in waiting rooms, similar to the idea in other countries of putting unpleasant images on cigarette packages to try to avoid people from smoking.

    Maybe you have to watch an 8-minute pro-life video before aborting.

    Then there are mandatory ultrasounds, so she can see a picture of exactly what it is she is aborting. Seeing the ultrasound could be traumatic to her and cause her to think twice before doing it again.

    sterilization could be an option for "repeat offenders", maybe some sort of three strikes law.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    women who want a later term elective abortion would have to WATCH the same procedure being done on another woman, put her in the same room, in addition to any other punishment.

    Maybe she could be required to have to hold the fetus in her hands.
     
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe STING operations, where she thinks she's getting her "procedure" at an underground clinic, she hops up on the table and spreads her legs, but they insert a red hot spicy suppository.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The penalty could be drastically reduced if they only catch her because she went to a hospital.

    That would solve that problem.

    For late-term abortion there would be no reduction in penalty.

    (old thread from another poster that discusses that: Women that die from back alley abortions - Do they get what they deserve ? )
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep in mind that most pro-life discussions about punishment involve the doctor not the woman.

    Some pro-life proposals don't involve any punishment for the woman.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    IF abortion is banned because it's opponents say it's MURRRRRDERRRR...then women getting abortions should be charged with MURDER and punished according to state guide lines, execution or life in prison.


    The Anti-Women's rights people canNOT have it both ways...
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for once AGAIN proving that the ONLY thing Anti-Choicers want to do is delight in PUNISHING, SHAMING, DEMEANING WOMEN and treating them as animals ...
    Using cruel and unusual punishments that they do NOT proscribe for men.
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    If a woman HIRES someone to commit murder both the murder and the woman are charged the same.

    IT is EXACTLY like hiring a hitman, BOTH parties are charged..
     
  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Please keep your vulgar misogynistic wet dreams out of this....if you can..
     
  12. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You may not want them to but, yes they can. The rhetoric that motivates and unified the base to fight Roe, can of course give way to a 'kindler, gentler' more forgiving rhetoric to broaden the base of the movement to govern once its gone. If they control the state legislature that writes the abortion statutes, that same body can decide who should be prosecuted and for what crime. They can target the abortion provider, and its economic support system, or the woman or her support system or all of the above.

    This thread is designed to get pro-lifers here to confront that rhetorical contradiction you mention, head on, and come up with a practical sustainable public policy law enforcement response towards the women that they can support and tell me what they really propose to do.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  13. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How else could they "catch" her? Abortion laws cannot be enforced.

    American doctors are doing procedures south of our border to circumvent US regulations. Abortion laws have zero value to society.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ever heard of sting operations?

    If you seriously believed there was absolutely no way to catch her, why would you be worried about these laws?
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We've already been over this before, FoxHastings. It is a "lesser form" of murder, there are all different degrees of murder. (For example, Just look at women who drown their toddler in a bathtub because they were at their wit's end and emotional, they usually get lots of sympathy and maybe only 5 to 7 years prison time)
    If you want to talk about this, it would be a discussion best to have in a different thread.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey, at least she wouldn't get any prison time. Isn't that better?
    Or do you operate based on FEELINGS ?
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's wrong with that idea?
    They wouldn't even have to arrest her.
     
  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course. The abysmal failure we call "The war on drugs" uses them.

    To answer your question: It is an extreme abuse of power that can only lead to more government control over our lives. We need to be going in the opposite direction and fight to reduce government interference in our lives. Just look at the vaccine and mask mandates.
     
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or less, if those on the pro-choice side are made to recognize that total centralized government power and control is not always a good thing.

    Paradoxically, I think pro-life laws might ultimately lead to more freedom. Why just look in this very thread. The idea of abortion laws that could actually be implemented has got many of those on the Progressive Left talking like Constitutional conservatives and radical Libertarians.

    Keeping a little thorn in their side might keep the ideological talking points of the Progressive Left from becoming too tyrannical.

    Come on, Doofenshmirtz, you know this to be true.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not possible for government to impose freedom.
     
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  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would suggest you re-read the previous post and think about it a little bit.
     
  22. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did and the amount of government force necessary to enforce abortion laws is beyond excessive. Do we put pregnancy scanners at airports? How about installing pregnancy testing equipment on the main line sewer pipe in all homes to tip off law enforcement? Perhaps we can place these pregnant women on the NO Fly list, of require them to register their pregnancy. What about spyware on cell phones that detect key words one would use when discovering they are pregnant? This is the opposite of freedom.
     
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  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    How come so many pro abortion people are anti death penalty?
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. But if those scanners (which are already in place) can easily be updated with a small software modification, why not do it?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  25. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, so we know she is pregnant. Now what?
     

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