Former Israeli PM Olmert gets 6 years in prison for corruption

(Modern) Sefaradic Jews are ladino speakers from Spain and Portugal, they carried the ladino tradition to Turkey and Eretz Yisrael (Palestine). They are western jews that that came from spain and portugal (literally right above the maghreb which ironically means 'west' in arabic). True some modern sefaradim also spoke arabic as did ashkenazi jews depending on the country they settled in after 1492 and 1497, but sefaradim are not the same as the adot hamizrah (communities of the east). The true mizrahim (derived from the hebrew 3adot hamizra7 'communites of the east/orient') never spoke ladino or set foot in europe. Arabic wasn't the only language of our ancestors, there was also hebrew, persian, and caucasian languages, although our ancestors did adopt the spanish/portugese religious rite or follow similar customs. Thats why the two groups get confused. The terms are often overlapping in Israel and around the world and used incorrectly. The Jews of Iran and Iraq are true mizrahim, but they are not european jews (sefaradim) although they may follow similar religious practices, but linguistically and culturally they are quite different from us.

Over 50% of Israeli Jews are mizrahi, meaning we never went to (iberia) europe, we only made it as far as north africa and the caucasus. So we form the majority of Israel. Back in the 70s we made up like 70% but that changed with the influx of ethiopians and russians, and other africans (including non jews, or those with minimal jewish ancestry). But yes, many Israelis have sefaradic ancestors that spoke ladino for 500 years, and yes, some settled in middle eastern lands including Israel.

You are also leaving out Sabras, native born Israelis or palestinians (those born in the mandate regardless of religious denomination). Sabras are middle eastern in terms of where they are born, their language (Hebrew), their culture (israeli). And many sabras are of mixed religious background anyway, the intermarriage rates between ashkenazi and mizrahi jews are very high. The stats in wikipedia only list those born in africa/asia (other than Israel). The stats don't include the new generations of Israelis, many of whom are at least part sefaradi or mizrahi.

So again if anyone is 'stealing' any land, its middle eastern people (of course I don't believe we stole anything, rather we had our land stolen in Iraq and other countries). People need to remember that Israel is a middle eastern country, its not a european colony. (What european colony ever would adopt a middle eastern language). European colonies don't adopt middle eastern customs and languages, rather imperialist european colonies have always viewed african and asian nations with disgust.

Anyway sefaradim had such an impact on israel that all israelis speak hebrew, and sefaradi hebrew is the national tongue.

Another thing I dispute is that 'western jews' all brought liberalism, democracy, communism to the middle east. Yes, some of the early modern zionist jews came from a western background and formed the labor party in the early years. But actually the eastern ashkenazim or oriental ashkenazim as they were called in europe, the ones who came from shtetls in eastern europe, were not assimilated into european culture. Many couldn't speak german, they only knew yiddish (a mish-mash of medieval german, aramaic, and hebrew written in mideastern script and ironically for centuries these ashkenazi jews were very poor and lived cloistered religious lives in these shtetls and were discriminated against by the westernized sefaradi jews who looked down on yiddish as dirty, as opposed to ladino. Sefaradim even refused to marry ashkenazim in most cases because of the cultural differences and their view of ashkenazi jews as being poor, inferior, and illiterate in some cases.). Sefaradim viewed themselves as elites, especially in the netherlands and other parts of europe because they held high positions like doctors and such.

 

If anyone wants something to protest about Israel, protest their demographic stats. Its a disgrace, they classify black hebrews living in Israel as ashkenazim and sefaradim from turkey as 'mizrahim'. European jews from bulgaria/greece are classifed as 'ashkenazi' not 'sefaradi'. South African jews are classified by Israel as 'mizrahi'. Armenian ashkenazim and Kazakh ashkenazim are classifed as 'mizrahim'. Georgian Jews are classifed or rather were classified as 'ashkenazi' up until 1996. The census in Israel is a joke, so please protest it. And its time for these silly labels to go away, especially with all of the intermarriage rates being so high. Israelis and non Israelis alike also seem to forget that sefaradi and ashkenazi are just religious groups, not racial, they are passed down paternally, not maternally. Thats why sometimes you have practically black skinned ashkenazim and white sefaradim. These labels have absolutely nothing to do with color or race, but deal with minhag/customs (including jewish diaspora language) and religion.

But somehow israel also classifies moroccan sefaradim as mizrahi and turkish sefaradim (who are ladinophiles) as 'mizrachim' lmao, get real. I'm serious, the Israelis running the census bureau should be removed/fired. They have no idea what they are talking about and tend to group people for the purposes of 'race' baiting..even though they are unknowingly classifying according to religious custom and culture. So anti-israelis, there is something you can go protest with my full support!

The only significance ashkenazi and sfarad labels have now is basically whether to eat rice and legumes and passover and what chief rabbi you follow.

 

BS trout, uprooting all those towns was no "stunt" it had a profound meaning to Israellis and cost a fortune to thr treasury, politicly it banished Sharon from his party and he started a new one, as usual you let your hatered take over your brain which results to such remarks.....

 

75% of Israeli Jews were born in Israel - not Europe or other countries, thats the only stat that matters.

 

Exactly, they are middle eastern. And Olim (those who make aliyah) quickly assimilate to a middle eastern culture and learn the middle eastern language of Hebrew (no easy task either), so they can quickly be absorbed into Israeli society. Israel is not a european state, but a middle eastern one, its incredible how many people out there think out of ignorance that Israelis are just a bunch of americans or europeans that speak english as their first language. If people have problems with Israel, fine, but they are intellectually dishonest or misinformed when they say Israel is a european state or colony, everything about it is middle eastern, the music, the culture, the language.. As you said 75% of Israeli Jews are sabras which makes them at the very least middle eastern by birth. Before the establishment of Israel and Jordan, anyone born in the british mandate was palestinian, whether arab, jew, greek, armenian, samaritan or anything else. Thats why samaritans born in Israel identify as Israeli yet samaritans born in the territories identify as palestinian.

Its amazing when anti-zionists say Jews are Russian if they are born in Russia, but they are not palestinian or Israeli when born in Palestine or Israel.

 

Oh well- I've already posted that your claim was sleight of hand. The poor dupe in question was Druze-- and didn't actually want to be termed ' arab ' at all- and he simply stood in whilst the president was on vacation. Apatheid is Israel is rife.

 

Yep. ' Fantaganda '.

 

If you like. A for AIPAC. A prisoner in a cell- like a Palestinian citizen of Gaza, the world's largest open prison- is a prisoner in a cell regardless of whether the jailers are in there with him or not.

 

Two thumbs up for Israel (and Italy) someday we should all start doing the same.

 

The British had a Mandate for the Palestine you , ridiculously, claim did not exist. It's a pathetic claim, a rabble-rousing claim which once served to annoy and inflame- but is now completely redundant as the United Nations recognised the Palestinian State on the pre-1967 borders in November, 2012. Your crap isn't just crap- it's old crap.

 

Sephardi Jews are from Spain and Portugal. Both were in Europe last time I checked.

When you subtract the European Sephardics from the Mizrahi Jews you are left with a majority of Ashkenazi Jews- Europeans- at 47.5%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews


I don't give a monkey's about the intra-jewish class structure of Israel, however. My concern is to get the lot of them out of Palestine and to ensure that they do not victimise Palestinian Israeli citizens of Israel

 

The Israeli government is neoZionist and it engages in ethnic cleansing and apartheid. What are your alternatives for these accepted political descriptions ?
Oh, I forgot ' Hasbara '- which is generally 100% fabricated neoZionist propaganda designed to give a false picture of Israel. It's an Israeli term, used by Israelis. What would you like to replace it with ?

 

That's the place God granted them, between Israel, Egypt and the Sea, they only have peace with the sea.

 

Yea? how many Jews from Portugal and Spain came to Israel in the last decade ?

75% of the Israeli Jews were born in Israel, 50% had their parents born here.

 

Who cares- as long as they clear off out of Palestine- according to the requirements of international law.

 

Yea, Liberman acknowledged the suffering of some Israeli Arab villages and suggested they will join the Palestinan state, everyone became proud of being Israeli all of the sudden. a dark day for Palestinain propganda.

 

Indeed,

I'm intersted to know what you had in mind to connect Gaza to WB, just to grasp Hamas view of things - if you can.

 

Simply put, Gaza and the West Bank are contiguous under UNGAR 181. The world at large insists upon a ' viable and contiguous State of Palestine'....the US included. Zionist, go home. And take Yanqui with you.

 

What's a Yanqui ?

So you target the partitation plan, how does that meet 67 lines that International committee voted for ?

 

November 2012 recognition is a good starting point. The real legal argument did not finish with that recognition. It will continue with Palestine's request for full UN membership. Better that Israel doesn't object, what ?

Any hegemonic American working for the US government or private organisations in somebody else's country.

 

Oh that Yanqui , got it.

OK, thx for answering.

 

Ah, the apartheid regime. Next they'll be saying that he's in the same conditions as Palestinian political prisoners.

 

That's all fine and all, but as I showed, very few Sephardic Jews settled in Palestine after their exile from Spain. And unlike the Zionists, they did not intend to settle and take the land from the Arabs.

And 47% are Western European. As said, Mizrahi Jews began immigrating to Israel in waves after they faced antagonism in their respective societies over what what the Zionists were doing in Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#Second_Aliyah_.281904.E2.80.931914.29

The new generation of Israelis isn't important in this discussion, as we are debating history. As the above link showed, most of the Jews who initially immigrated to Palestine (and make it their home) were Western/Eastern European Jews. The Jews from the Arab world came after the state of Israel was formed.

No, because as I have showed, Middle Eastern started arriving in Israel after the state was formed. There was already a land, so they didn't have to do any stealing.

I didn't say all did; but in general yes, that was the case, especially among the thinkers of Zionism.

 

Not when we are discussing history. And just because a lot of Americans in the US are born in the country does not mean that they are not of Western European decent.

 

If you go to Israel you will find that many families have sefaradic ancestors who lived in Jersualem for 500 years, really. And yes, zionism actually started with Yehuda Alkalai a european sefaradi rabbi from bosnia. And some of the more recent zionists were sefaradic too, like moshe shatiel from Herzl's time. Herzl himself has been rumored to be of part sefaradi ancestry. They had a hugh impact on zionism, even modern hebrew is spoken in the sefaradi accent.

Even if that were entirely true, which its not, the creation of Israel is no reason to punish the citizens of islamic countries. Also the 47% shows that group is minority, plus the stats aren't classifying people entirely correctly, and sabras are not taken into account (they are mideastern regardless of religious denomination).

It doesn't matter because as you said, they absorbed into middle eastern culture. And all those who make aliyah absorb into israeli culture. Some Jews from the arab world also came to Israel prior to its founding.