Former US drone operator recalls dropping a missile on Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Space_Time, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but that's not the point. AUMF's aren't DOW's. We're not at war. We're not on a war-time footing. Americans aren't being asked to sacrifice anything. Ask yourself, when's the last time a country at war passed tax CUTS?
     
  2. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    We're at war with the rest of the world? What an idiotic thing to say.

    I'm more worried about white nationalists than Islamists. They're the ones killing Americans these days.
     
  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It was determined at the Yalta Conference in early February of 1945 that the Soviets would join the war in the Pacific against Japan 3 months after the war in Europe was over with, and the Soviets would take the southern (Japanese) half of Sakalin Island which they did not control and also take the Kuril Islands as their own.

    The USA secretly transferred 149 ships to the Soviets to aid in the invasion of the Japanese islands and supported the Soviets with our fighter aircraft and some bombers.

    Certainly the Soviets made a contribution to the surrender of Japan, and the USA was in on it from the start as it was Roosevelt's idea (aided by the greatest military men in the world, of course).
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  4. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The original article was from 2013. Who was President then?
     
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  5. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I know the history behind it. We were looking at a million casualties if we had to invade the home islands. We were terrified of that and Roosevelt handed over Eastern Europe to Stalin for a DOW against Japan. Not that it would have made any difference, since the Russians weren't going to allow free elections under any circumstances, which Roosevelt well knew.

    That being said, the two atomic bombs were puny compared to the damage our conventional bombers had already done. The atomic bombs didn't convince Japan to stop fighting, but what they did do was give Japan a face-saving way to end the war.
     
  6. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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  7. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We're getting off in the weeds. That's not what this thread is about. Not just your fault. Mine too.
     
  8. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So many grey areas. What is conveyed is that we regularly drop bombs on school playgrounds. Civilian casualties are an unfortunate circumstance of military operations. I have also seen the media portray the US military killing an innocent child who happens to be standing on the roof of a building with an RPG. Or what about non-combat civilians building explosives which may or may not result in an IED? How about hide outs of truly terrible people who surround themselves with civilians in order to use a human shield because they know they are a target.

    In using drones to conduct strategic strikes have saved untold numbers of lives, of civilians subjected to terrorism and genocide, protected our military from direct engagement, and have been largely successful in identifying where the bad guys are and how to take them out cleanly.

    I won't say that civilians, even innocent ones haven't died. But do we target them? Of course not. While our enemies DO fly planes into buildings they know have thousands of innocent civilians in them. Better we are fighting over there the best we can then accept the casualties of our soldiers, or worse our civilians at home.
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Banned

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    No one is innocent in war. It is one side or the other and everyone is a potential target.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Banned

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  11. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I forgot what the thread is about.

    OK, it's about drone strikes. I think our policy is abhorrent. It will be a stain on Obama's legacy. If we're going to have a covert war against terrorists, fine. But let's spend some money on it and do it the old fashioned way, with special forces guys, rather than taking out a bunch of civilians because drone strikes are quick and easy.

    Drones have their place, but we are way too over-reliant on them. Wouldn't you want some payback if some country killed your wife or kid while they were taking out a high-value (to them) target? I would. We're creating a lot of new terrorists with this policy. This is the kind of thing that needs to be done as surgical as possible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  12. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think our policy is abhorrent. But I think war is a terrible thing. And as cautious as we should be about choosing to go to war, so also should those who hate us to decide to go to war against us. For inevitably, war brings death and loss and hardship and misery. So we must not seek war. Others should not seek war with us either.

    And just consider this ... If you are some Al Qaeda leader living in the tribal areas of northeastern Pakistan, and all of your efforts are directed at killing U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, dispatching suicide bombers, training IED builders, and propagating violent jihad against muslims and infidels alike, and you consider yourself to be at war with the U.S....

    Do you mingle with women and children? Do you sleep in the same house with them? Would you do that? I wouldn't.

    It is a choice to target the U.S. and therefore to make yourself a target. But what right does that terrorist have to mingle with civilians, making them casualties if he is hit? What kind of mindset does this?

    I think our side tries very hard not to hurt civilians. Like in the incident in the article, if they had seen the child before the missile was launched, they wouldn't have launched it.

    We need to do our part not to kill civilians. But that does not mean that the enemy shouldn't do their part as well. They bear responsibility for civilian deaths too.
     
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  13. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of this. I still think we're the good guys. I don't want us to turn into the bad guys. Killing families of terrorists, which Trump talked about doing, is not a road we should even THINK about going down. That should have been condemned loudly by your side.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  14. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    Because when the constitution was written the founding fathers envisioned one countries army fighting another. Not some group of rag heds in a cave planning to chop a childs head off with an ax.

    So since there is no army to declare war on, we are at war and have been since Sept 11, 2001. Congress passed a law that stated we could use military force against terrorists anywhere on the globe. Call it war, call it a cheese sandwich, I don't care. But the end result is the same. We use military force to kill our enemy. We have a right to protect our own citizens, soldiers and allies abroad. No declaration of war needed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  15. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    No, I still wish I was killing Al Qaeda. **** them and their horses too.
     
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  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Those being attacked, those defending themselves, have a higher moral standing than the invaders.
     

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