From Atheism To Faith In God ~ The Unbelieving Scientist And The Creationist

"Sorry but you're no journalist"___HonestJoe
I did not say I was a journalist, but , , ,
How do you know I am not a journalist?

"this isn't a major magazine"__HonestJoe
■ So what? Our eyes have to travel some 17 inches
to read each line of text if you go all the way
across the digital page.
■ Some people will argue with a Fence Post.
■ Some people have made a decision to NOT
agree on the color of an Orange.

Regarding the width of the text on the page:
I am sure that there are some folks that LOVE
for their eyes to have to travel some 17 inches
as they read a HUGE WALL of text -- some times
you see posters post HUGE massive Data Dumps
and I betcha there are at least SOME people that
"just love" to read those 17 inches across line after
line in the ENTIRE wall of text.
On only the point of being odd:
The human race has SOME Cannibals too.
And some people that love Orange hair and Green
hair and they dye it up Orange and Green.
Also many people have holes poked in their noses,
eyebrows, lips, jaws, ears, and tongues.

What ever floats their boat.

Your option 3, in my opinion, beats the following

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Best.

JAG

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such
times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to
decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
__J.R.R. Tolkien


``

 

I will answer your question, but I do not want to turn this
thread into a thread on Evolution.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...evolution-and-infinite-typing-monkeys.578368/
_________________


I define "Heavy load" as follows , , ,


Most Evolutionists these days hawk "Natural Selection"
and "Random mutation" , , ,
,
Evolutionists claim that , , ,

~ natural selection
and
~ :random mutation
and
~ atoms and molecules
and
~ chemical reactions
and
~ etc etc etc

plus
unthinking non-intelligent Time
plus
unthinking non-intelligent Chance
plus
unthinking non-intelligent Matter , , ,

, , eventually produced a situation where our ancestors crawled
up out of the Primordial Slime or Primordial Soup, at first just a
tiny speck, later to become the size of a dime, later to become the
size of a golf ball, later to become a Bullfrog or Whatever They Say It Was
later to become a Monkey or a Chimp, later to become a "George W. Bush."

____________


Moreover, , , Evolutionists believe that , , ,


~ unthinking non-intelligent Time
plus
~ unthinking non-intelligent Chance
plus
~ unthinking non-intelligent Matter , , ,

. . . produced a , , ,

■ highly complex Human Brain
and
■ a highly complex Human Eye
and
■ a highly complex Fully Functioning Human Body
and
■ a highly complex Earth
and
■ a highly complex Universe.
and eventually produced a , , ,
■ highly complex "George W. Bush"


It takes a lot of Faith to believe all that up there.
And my view is that anybody who believes all that
up there is a Great Man Of Faith -- this is why I
speak about the Religion Of Evolution


_______________


Best.


JAG

"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that though he was rich, yet for your sake he
became poor, so that you through his poverty
might become rich."__2 Corinthains 8:9

``

 

My bolded red. If you want to phrase it that way, then agreed,

Because they DO, do that.
I do not know the percentage, but I don't think its a huge %
Only God knows the true "Quit Percentage" that occurs
within Worldwide Christendom. I have no reason to believe
that there are HUGE-ENORMOUS numbers of people that
"quit Christianity."

Maybe Pew Research can enlighten us on that -- not that I care
one way or the other, and I don't say that to be discourteous, its
just that there is a significant percentage of HUMANITY that is
Evil & Fickle and Untrustworthy --- check out the daily Cable News
Shows for proof of that claim.

___________

Dis you see my short post on the "boy Scout" thingy?

What are your thoughts on this below?

How would you apply your "No True Scotsman" so-called "fallacy"
to John down there ? , , ,

{1} John decided to join the Boy Scouts
{2} John did join the Boy Scouts.
{3} John learned the Boy Scout Code Of Honor
{4} John never really in his heart thought it was a good Moral Code.
{5} But John, for all outward appearances, was a good Boy Scout.
{6} John even helped old ladies cross the busy highway.
{7} But John, in his heart, hated old ladies, and wanted to hurt them
(8} When no one was around, John would find old ladies and shove them to the ground.
{9} John, after 3 years as a Boy Scout, finally decided to quit and leave the Boy Scouts.

So?

So John was NEVER a true Boy Scout.
End quote.

Best,

JAG

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such
times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to
decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
J.R.R. Tolkien


``

 

Ending:
The scientist, being true to himself,remained a free-thinker; he knew that faith in deities has no value in the search for truth because it can lead you to any conclusion.

 

Seemingly random. A scientists doesn't say "I don't know, so it must be some magical being creating stuff from the ether."

Meanwhile, religionists prey on ignorance and fear of the unknown to hawk their submission to a big, angry sky daddy.

 

I am sure your heart is in the right place, but sadly you misunderstand.
that the Scientist came to the place where he knew that he was a poor
lost sinner that needed to be redeemed and saved from his sin by the
shed blood of the Lord Jesus.

This particular scientist came to know that his previous "free-thinker" days
had cost him dearly and he was desperately looking for some help for his
eternal soul.

So he prayed from the heart this simple prayer , , ,

"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You
died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come
into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

Then an amazing thing happened.

The supernatural power of the Holy Spirit enlightened the mind of the Scientist
so that he could now understand spiritual truths and the Scientist turned away
from his Atheism and became a believing Christian.

_________


By the way, thank you for giving me the idea of doing a "play-off" on your dialogue thingy
between the Scientist and the Creationist. I really enjoyed writing that up and at the time
I did not plan to make an OP out of it --- but later I thought "Yeah lets do an OP on this
to see where it goes."?

Best.

JAG

Thought For Today.
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and
purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we
make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."___1 John 1:8-10


``

 

, , , ,

There is not any help coming from magical beings, but the God
that created you and I, loves us and has provided a way were we
can have peace with Him.

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ" said the Apostle Paul in Romans 5:1

ether - the clear sky; the upper regions of air beyond the clouds.

I have never heard any religionists say that God or your "magical beings"
created "stuff from the ether."

Here is a better idea:

More down to Earth , , ,

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through
faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift
of God."__Ephesians 2:8

It is true that Christianity teaches that God is angry with the wicked.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the
godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the
truth by their wickedness,"__Romans 1:18

, , , but God has provided the solution to our Sin Problem , , ,

"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have
peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom
we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now
stand" Romans 5:1-2

Best.

JAG


``

 

"When we can't answer, we obfuscate!" - religionists everywhere

Why would the creator of sin be angry with sinners? If God is perfect, then He/She/It cannot create anything that is imperfect.

 

The Scientist knew that he was poor for he had no pasta;he needed to be saved by the shed sauce of the Flying Spaghetti Monster so he began to pray.

"Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day, our garlic bread, …and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. And lead us not into vegetarianism, but deliver us some pizza, for thine is the meatball, the noodle, and the sauce, forever and ever. R’amen."

Lo and behold the scientist had become a Pastafarian.

 

An adaptation of earlier stories

 

LOL Very good!

 

I didn't write the prayer part, I saw it on one of their websites.
Flying Spaghetti Monster
deity of Pastafarian social movement
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster

 

That is incorrect.
You were given a good Biblical answer with no obfuscation.

Give the New Testament book of Romans a slow and careful
read to get some answers to your questions.

Here is one passage from Romans , , ,
"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless,
Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for
a righteous person, though for a good person someone
might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own
love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died
for us.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much
more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled
to him through the death of his Son, how much more,
having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his
life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God
through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we
have now received reconciliation."
Romans chapter 5


Best.

JAG

 

I'd like to insert myself into this conversation because I just love doing that to people.

This scientist apparently forgot about mutations which works along side natural selection. He also forgot about all the genetic, fossil, observed, and morphological evidence for evolution. We can even see natural selection and mutations do incredible things with our very own eyes.

Well, you are a creationist so of course you doubt evolution.

If the snake just represents an idea, then it didn't have that conversation with Eve. Maybe the tree of good and evil are metaphor too. Maybe the garden of Eden is metaphor. Maybe Adam and Eve are metaphor. Maybe the days of creation are metaphor for evolution.

Being your own God and being like God are very different. Being your own God doesn't literally mean being a God at all, but rather having power over yourself without having to answer to a God. Being like God means having the powers of God and being able to dominate others like God does.

I'm confused. How does punishing an innocent person take away your responsibility for your actions. Punishment has four purposes: Revenge for the crime, rehabilitating the criminal, discouragement and prevention of future crimes, and compensation to the victim. Punishing an innocent person doesn't fix any of these. Its like if the mother of a child rapist volunteered to take his punishment instead so he could walk out free. It doesn't make any sense.

I have another issue. Why is believing in Jesus a requirement when its not obvious which religion is true? Billions of people have faith in other religions like Christians do and are good people. As long as they are basically good people, why can't they be saved like Christians? I'm sure that when they are made aware of the correct religion by Jesus, they will be glad to accept him. He is free to visit anyone he likes if they aren't aware he exists. There are many people today and in the past who have had little to no exposure to Christianity. And many others haven't heard a compelling case to even consider checking out Christianity, just like you probably haven't checked out Hinduism.

Why would the punishment for finite sins be eternal? That is like life in prison for missing a stop sign.

So what happens to those billions of good people who happen to believe in another religion or never heard of Christiantiy? How is pain and torture an ethical punishment?

How can you know something just because somebody claims it in a book?

How do they know these emotions are coming from a supernatural entity rather than just their own emotions toward something they believe?

What spiritual truths did he understand? How did he know these ideas were coming from a supernatural entity rather than his mind and very obvious desire to be a Christian? How does he know these ideas are true?

 

I leave you with , , ,

Proverbs 14:12 , , , for right now.

Maybe more later , , ,

Best.

JAG

PS
And this one may come in handy for you one day , ,
Matthew 12:31-32 {You don't have to worry about
committing the sin against the Holy Spirit -- that sin
could only be committed by attributing the miracles
of the Lord Jesus to the power of Evil -- you remember
the Pharisees and the Teachers Of The Law said that
Christ performed His miracles by the power of Evil.)

``

 

I am going to say that EVERYTHING , , YOU , , claim you KNOW
about Evolution you READ IN A BOOK.

So?

So what you wrote is not a good thing unless you are going to tell
me that YOU are A Biologist and that YOU are on the Front Lines of
Biological Science and Biological Research and that YOU do NOT
depend on what you read in Books or in Digital Books and Articles
on the Internet to reach your conclusions about Evolution.

Are you going to dodge what I just said?
Or face it head on?

JAG

1 Corinthians 13:13


``

 

■ Is that a good thing?

■ This is the Internet and all that you posted is eveywhere
inside Thread World.

■ The OP in a thread enjoys the prominent position
and what is posted inside threads inside Thread World
has an amazingly short "shelf life" and is soon buried
forever in the Digital Bowels of the Internet.

JAG

"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith into
this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in
the hope of the glory of God.__Romans 5 1-2


``More later , , ,

``

 

Our One Creator Which Flies is Spaghetti and a Monster,
I believe Thou art the Creator of Goodness and Nourishment, and of Sustenance. I thank the Pasta, and the Sauce, and the Meatballs, for they provide me all my needs.

 

This below is the prayer that the Scientist in my story prayed , ,

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your
forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead.
I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life.
I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior. In Your Name.
Amen." __from the Billy Graham Crusades.

But he could have just as easily have prayed this one , ,

"Lord Jesus, I need You. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins.
I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord.
Thank You for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take
control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person
You want me to be."___Campus Crusade For Christ.

Best.

JAG

 

The scientist prayed.

Hail Marinara, Full of Spice, The Flying Spaghetti Monster is filled with Thee. Tasty art Thou amongst sauces, and blessed is the fruit of thy jar, tomatoes (although fools believe they are vegetables). Holy Marinara, Chief Amongst Toppings, Save a plate for us now, and at about 6 o’clock when dinner is served, if you would be so kind.

 

You missed the point in my post. I'm not saying we shouldn't believe everything we read in books. If we didn't, then we would all be doubting atomic theory, the theory of gravity, and the rest of science.

What I'm really saying is that we can't accept everything we read. There are a lot of books claiming there were UFO abductions, 9/11 was an inside job, the earth is hollow, certain places are haunted, etc etc. If we accepted everything we read, then our minds would be full of ridiculous contradictory beliefs.

When you read a claim in a book, you need some sort of process of determining whether it is worth believing or not. Like I read Book A that claims forest spirits are real, and I read book B laying out the evidence for the theory of gravity. What process do we use to accept Book B but not Book A?

Now lets say I read a book claiming that Muhammed is God's prophet and the Koran is his word. Then I read another book saying Krishna is a God. I read another book claiming that Joseph Smith is God's profit and the Book of Mormon is his word. I read another book claiming that Jesus is God. How do I know which one to trust and whether I should even trust any of them more than the UFO and conspiracy books?

 

You misunderstood what the Scientist extensively prayed which was more
prayers than his original prayer. Later the Scientist prayed this prayer:

"God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have created me.
In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love. I repent of each and every
one of my sins. Please forgive me. Thank You for sending Your Son to die
for me, to save me from eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew
my) covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart. I
surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to flood my
soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may be transformed.
Give me the grace and courage to live as a disciple in Your Church for
the rest of my days. In Jesus name I pray Amen."___from Saith Paul
Street Evangelization

And the Scientist also came to greatly love this Bible verse.

"And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard
your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."___Philippians 4:7

Best.

JAG

``

 

Okay, I got it.

Each man determines for himself what that process is.
As you know, you are not the authority on what that
process is. Neither am I.

That is your personal decision.

My bolded red >> How do you know? That's your call, not my call.
One man's "know" on that issue is another man's "NOT-Know."

_______________


Regarding Christianity, you can NOT know it is true apart
from the supernatural enlightenment of the Holy Spirit who
regenerates the dead spiritual nature so that it can now
understand spiritual truths. The Lord Jesus explained in
John chapter 3 that this was called being "born again.
You can NOT skip that step and ever come to know
that Christianity is true.

Start quote.
"How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to
be born!”

"Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom
of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth
to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised
at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’The wind blows wherever it
pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes
from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
__The Lord Jesus in John chapter 3

JAG


``

 

JAG Wrote:
Scientist: I sometimes wonder if our "Natural Selection"
can actually carry the heavy load we have placed upon it?

Distraff Replied:

You have no way of knowing what the Scientist meant by his phrase
"heavy load" in this my fiction-story-dialogue between the Scientist and
the Creationist.

It is my story and I say when the Scientists said "heavy load" he meant
this below , ,
.
Most Evolutionists these days hawk "Natural Selection"
and "Random mutation" , , ,

Evolutionists claim that , , ,

~ natural selection
and
~ :random mutation
and
~ atoms and molecules
and
~ chemical reactions
and
~ etc etc etc

plus
unthinking non-intelligent Time
plus
unthinking non-intelligent Chance
plus
unthinking non-intelligent Matter , , ,

, , eventually produced a situation where our ancestors crawled
up out of the Primordial Slime or Primordial Soup, at first just a
tiny speck, later to become the size of a dime, later to become the
size of a golf ball, later to become a Bullfrog or Whatever They Say It Was
later to become a Monkey or a Chimp, later to become a "George W. Bush."

____________


Moreover, , , Evolutionists believe that , , ,

~ unthinking non-intelligent Time
plus
~ unthinking non-intelligent Chance
plus
~ unthinking non-intelligent Matter , , ,

. . . produced a , , ,

■ highly complex Human Brain
and
■ a highly complex Human Eye
and
■ a highly complex Fully Functioning Human Body
and
■ a highly complex Earth
and
■ a highly complex Universe.
and eventually produced a , , ,
■ highly complex "George W. Bush"

_____________


It takes a lot of Faith to believe all that up there.
And my view is that anybody who believes all that
up there is a Great Man Of Faith -- this is why I
speak about the Religion Of Evolution.

_________

That up there is what "heavy load" meant.


JAG

 

Ok, I get that natural selection and mutations had a lot of work to do. But we actually have some good observed examples of the evolution of highly complex things. And we have a lot of evidence we evolved from a common ancestor. So you can feel that there is a "heavy load", but somehow it managed.