Funny How The Pendulum Always Swings Back

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by impermanence, Sep 13, 2022.

  1. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Although I consider myself non-political, it's been difficult to sit on the sidelines and watch what's been going on with the radical left [which now seems to include the Democrat party].

    The fact that most of the left's agenda appears to be anti-intellectual, racist, and authoritarian should cause one to pause and consider that the vast majority of the folks who these radicals are railing against have barely lifted a finger in response [as their policies have been so poorly thought-out, they fail immediately].

    At some point, critical mass is going to be reached and there are going to be some serious repercussions. Although there is no question that the corruption in this system needs to be rooted-out, the left has only demonstrated that they can make things worse [something that has been reveled to the world again and again over the past century].

    It's not that the majority are not sympathetic to what has happened over the past 50+ years, but nobody with an IQ over 75 buys into all the other non-sense. People in the U.S. and all over the world understand that the greatest opportunities for success [despite all the craziness going on] are still here. Otherwise, everybody would have migrated to all the socialist paradises around the world.

    If I was on the left, I would certainly be preparing to jump ship before the **** hits the fan. In the end, the system is capitalism and the bankers are going to win. After all, do you really believe that young people in the West are going to give up much of anything after things really start getting ugly? TPTB will do what they have to destroy any opposition [because they actually have a system that works].

    Enough is enough with all this childish behavior. It's time for the left to go back to the Universities, take out a copy of Das Kapital and learn how capitalism works. Then they can begin to focus on cleaning up the system by promoting positive things like personal ethics and a community-based morality that supports things that matter...like families and children and real money!

    You people need to stop trying to change something you know nothing about. Try to see the good in things and people and deal with your anger issues. Being angry is just blaming somebody else or all of your problems. It's time to grow-up and turn around because that pendulum is on its way and it's picking up speed!
     
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  2. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said! I love reading posts from non-partisan people. I wish I could learn to write in a way that didn't sound partisan like you have. All good points as well. Thanks!
     
  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Based on this and your other comments on various issues, it seems very disingenuous to claim that you consider yourself non-political. Your right wing bias is very obvious.

    Please clarify who you mean as "you people." That's a hostile, dividing phrase.
     
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What you're witnessing is just the bad part of the inevitable cycle of civilization. 1-Adversity makes men. 2-Men build prosperity. 3-Prosperity makes monsters. 4-Monsters make adversity. We're just about finished transitioning from part 3 to part 4. Stay calm, store food and keep your powder dry. Part 4 is pretty awful, but it doesn't usually last very long, relatively speaking.
     
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  5. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Could be that nearly everybody has a right wing bias compared to your own?

    "You people" is referring to the radical left that has done nothing constructive over the past few years. It's pretty easy to tear down, but not so easy to build. It seems like most of the policies initiated by the left have been hurting the very people being held out as beneficiaries of this way of organizing society.

    Even to the casual observer, it seems fairly obvious that this has been a political power play from its inception and that the policy initiatives have been about destabilization [again crushing the very people who the left is supposed to be helping]. Nobody buys it anymore [just as the BLM charade revealed that the left is most willing to sacrifice their own to make political hay].

    One does not have to be a political person to understand the dangers of political extremism. I am not opposed to change in the least, but it must be constructive. Look at the cast of characters the Democrats have put out on the national stage. One moron after another. Biden makes Trump seem like Albert Einstein. How can any citizen in this country take these people seriously when the POTUS is so obviously limited by his cognitive deficits. And the VP is an embarrassment.

    And you say my comments are dividing? The POTUS just called 75M Americans fascists. This might be the most irresponsible statement ever uttered by a president. Time will tell.

    Keep poking the bear and he will finally have had enough.
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing to say about the radical right going too far?
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "And you say my comments are dividing? The POTUS just called 75M Americans fascists. This might be the most irresponsible statement ever uttered by a president. Time will tell."

    no he did not, he called 1-6er types fascists

    Trump has said much worse....
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  8. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    If you are speaking of 1-6 I am not sure I would really suggest that these folks were the radical right. They didn't have any guns and I am not sure exactly what was going on but I would sure like to see all the tapes and have the press look into it instead of act like complete toadies of the government [who has sold-out to the left].

    We need the truth about everything all the time. The corruption in this country is everywhere and with nearly everybody. Although there is plenty of blame to go around, look at what the government has been supporting of late. Remember, you have a small group of people who are suggesting that an entire race of people are racist. Not only are these people complete morons, but they have gotten people in positions of power to go along with them because people will do anything to maintain power and wealth [apparently, even sell-out their entire race].

    If you have other examples of right extremism, please inform.
     
  9. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black? Biden has been in government for 50 years and is apparently as corrupt as it gets.

    Trump is who is who he is but what could he have said that is worse than that? Look at what the Democrat party is doing. These people are historically moronic. They have not one constructive idea because the left never does. They take power and then they completely f*** everything up. It happens every time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  10. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... Actually Biden did say that, several times now. If you have to equivocate on it, it's because even you recognize how stupid it was for him to say this. And having to fall back on "trump said worse" is the BS that keeps the fences up, keeps the wagons around liberal stupid, and fails to address the concerns raised on the OP.
     
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The problem is that you are such a partisan yourself, that you couldn't perceive the partisanship that the OP's post reeks of.
     
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  12. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OP does reek alright, OF FACTS. Due to your hypersensitive partisanship you CANNOT actually see it.
    Look man, if I want to learn partisan extremism, I'll study your posts OK? If i want to learn to be fair, then I'll study the posts of @impermanence
     
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  13. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    I agree our economic system is Free Market Capitalism with government intervention which many call a mixed market economy.

    You might want to read up on our political system given you stated your ‘non-political’ ( albeit it’s likely not what you meant) Yes. We have a political system as well as an economic one. That’s our experiment: the attempt to balance the two. By the way people come here because of promises of the political system: declaration, constitution, bill of rights.

    I, for one, hope the banker’s don’t ‘win’ because that would mean the end of our experiment. I’m squarely in the camp of our American experiment. I too don’t like our drift over the last fifty years years or so and the imbalance and resentment it’s created. The “bankers” making in-roads into places they shouldn’t be or gaining concessions they shouldn’t have: Capitalist intervention into the political system if you will.

    Last but not least. Touche’. You people need to stop intervening into a system you know absolutely nothing about. Especially trust fund babies born on third base believing they hit a triple like the former President. Clueless.

    Now if you’ve got ideas on how to get the players within the two systems to stop viewing themselves as adversaries I’m all ears.
     
  14. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well said and I agree with the sentiment. But to rain a little on the parade, even a pendulum can reach a point of no return. If we continue to quickly lose our freedom and control of the government without strong diligent resistance, there will come a point -- sometime -- when we can't get it back.
     
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  15. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Listen to you. Sometimes some noob comes here and embarrasses hims/herself, but your pile of pretentious drivel really takes the proverbial cake.

    How easy it is for someone new to this forum, while sitting behind their computer and anonymously toss off an entire group of people in such an arrogant, smug, cavalier fashion, while occupying some self-righteous lofty perch they imagine theirselves sitting upon, not even cognizant of their own partisanship and utter lack of gravitas, the kind of which would normally be respected and required of when someone makes such broad brush indictments of a group of people who number into the millions.

    Now then...

    You make broad brush indictments of the left, as if you actually possessed some authority, yet you are nobody in particular. Oh, you might be if your little essay possessed some credulity in the writing, but, alas, I could find none.

    You'd have a modicum of credibility if you could, at the very least, substantiate your sweeping claims in some scholarly way, even if only a small degree in the scholarly direction, but your treatise isn't one at all. It's utterly devoid of any degree of scholarship, and thus, must be rejected, in it's entirety. Now, you may claim you weren't trying to be scholarly, but you are, in fact, attempting to use elevated language (FFS, you alluded to Das Kapital,as if that were some kind of valid point one could make in a fleeting reference, but back to my original point --- that your writing doesn't rise above the pretentious) so thus it's not unfair of me to levy this criticism of you.

    Just know that such a preaching assessment of the broad brush variety you have deigned to dabble in actually requires scholarship in order to justly make such an assessment, that is, if 'credibility' has any import in your prose, which, writ large, it does not. That is so glaringly obvious to anyone who understands such things, that is is sad to witness it when someone comes along with something that reeks of partisanship while pretending not to be, who attempts to write in an elevated style but is obviously above his or her ability, while pretending to be 'above the fray' so to speak', yadda yadda. I've seen it so many times in the last 30 years on internet forums, you just don't realize how stale and boorish your little work of fiction actually is.

    So, if you are not willing to put forth a scholarly effort, which would take a lot of effort, critical thinking, scores of examples and documentation, all fully annotated, the kind you might find in encyclopedias and research papers, if you are not willing to do that, then what do we have here? All we have really here, is a lazy put down by a petty partisan parading as 'non partisan' whose pretentious lingo serves the sole purpose of nothing more than to get likes and accolades from like minded members of the forum. There is no real effort here to make a point, none that I could detect.

    Overall, your essay fails on so many levels it isn't even worth my time to dissect.

    I have spent the better part of my 71 years studying politics, and it is not for you to assess, in such an arrogant cavalier and utterly inadequate fashion, those whom you know nothing about, which is to say, you are guilty of that which you just accused others of.

    Look at this statement:

    You people need to stop trying to change something you know nothing about. Try to see the good in things and people and deal with your anger issues. Being angry is just blaming somebody else or all of your problems. It's time to grow-up and turn around because that pendulum is on its way and it's picking up speed!

    Allow me to disabuse you of a few particular egregious and nauseous misunderstandings you have on this forum. People are here for the expressed purpose of discussion, giving opinions, getting feedback, debating ideas, facts, this that and the other. We are here to debate things. At least we are on the Political Opinions and Beliefs forum. The last thing those of us who are here to debate ideas, those of us who have been here for more than a couple of days, the last thing we want or need is some johnny-come-lately to the forum preaching to us about what we should or shouldn't do, or 'know anything about' or to 'see the good things in people' as if that is an actual debate premise, which it most certainly is not. Take that to the Kumbaya forum, but not around here, you are in a kitchen of ideas where the stuff getting cooked can get hot, and if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. And here you sit, behind your computer, as if you actually knew yourself, anything about anything above and beyond your nose over the edge of that lofty perch you occupy, as if you possessed even a modicum of knowledge about anything which you have provided no evidence of whatsoever.

    Sure, you can criticize, but be specific, give examples, and source your claims, but stay away from intellectual exercises which are clearly, above and beyond your paygrade.

    Not-so-humbly tendered, from the left in all it's splendor,

    Patricio Da Silva

    Oh, and do not think for a moment, if you go crying to the moderators of my harsh criticism of you, that I'm not aware they will delete it.

    They will, but not only do I not care, I will know you have read the above, and that is all I need to know.
     
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  16. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because you can't prove him wrong so you are trying to intimidate him with big words and a bunch of run around fluff and drama. Having 71 years under your belt of worshipping the alt left isn't something to be bragging about there pal.
     
  17. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was quite rude. You're new here, so I'll overlook the obvious fact that you've not read many of my comments on other issues. I can tell the difference.

    The phrase "you people" is only used in hostility, and since you only apply it to the wackadoos on the far left, and seemingly (as far as I can tell so far) never to the hate-filled, violence-prone far right, your bias seems evident.

    Based on the rest of your anti-left statements, I stand by my earlier comment. You are entitled to your opinions, but you don't get to call yourself non- political when your right wing bias is so clear.

    And just for the sake of staying on topic: Trump is either a criminal or a moron. Pick one. Biden isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and wasn't even my third choice in the 2020 primaries, but at least he's filled his administration with capable, qualified people for the most part, and so far, none of them have been indicted. Trump didn't care whether the actual work of government got done, as long as those in the highest, cushiest jobs were his toadies and sycophants.

    And no, Biden did not call 75 million people fascists. Read the speech, don't just go with your right wing pundits' favorite talking points.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-continued-battle-for-the-soul-of-the-nation/

    "Now, I want to be very clear — (applause) — very clear up front: Not every Republican, not even the majority of Republicans, are MAGA Republicans. Not every Republican embraces their extreme ideology."

    "But there is no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven, and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans, and that is a threat to this country."

    He was only talking about the MAGA Republicans:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/02/trump-republicans-biden-maga/

    The estimate, taking a great many details into account, was that the MAGA Republicans Biden was addressing is only about 10% of Americans over 18.

    "Over and over, about 10 percent of the population (plus or minus a few percentage points) expresses the sort of view that Biden articulated: Republican or Republican-leaning and in favor of the positions he associated with “MAGA.”

    Details matter, context matters, but you won't get either from right wing politicians and talking heads. There's your "political extremism."

    Poking the bear is what that 10% have done in Biden's case. He finally got fed up with trying to reach across the aisle, only to get his hand bitten with a boatload of "No!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
  18. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Crying to the moderators? I believe you somewhat over-estimate your abilities, but that's ok. Confidence is a good thing. You said nothing in the least that bothered me nor am I against free speech. If you care to say something inappropriate, that's on you, but it doesn't appear as if you are of that ilk. I don't really care to chat with folks who have so little self-respect.

    So, let's develop this conversation. It appears as if you would like me to write as if I am contributing to a professional journal. This is hardly the forum for such and much of it is my own opinion, so consider yourself fortunate enough to be getting it from a primary source!

    My other point is that true knowledge is not intellectual, so I can blow you away with all kinds of bs that might be Grade A and right out of the most prestigious halls of learning, but it's bs, just the same. If you would like to bs with somebody, that's fine, but I am not so interested. More on that later.

    So...it doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that the socialist socio-economic experiments in the 20th century were abject failures, no, cataclysmic horrors. The greatest catastrophes in human history were all socialist in grounding...the USSR, Nazi Germany, and CCP China.

    The lessons learned from just these three experiments should cause any educated person to shutter at the thought that any sane person might want to go back down such a path. What kind of documentation would be required here? You are 71, you remember. Was the murder of nearly 100M people not enough for you? Are you willing to suggest that if we just tweak this and adjust that, everything will turn out peachy in Utopia this time?

    The BIGGEST reason why socialism/communism fails is because instead of having an entire society participating in making the important decisions [through market functions for ALL things], instead, you have a select group of people who [even if they were the smartest group of people the world has ever known] can not come anywhere close to the constant refinement that goes in a market-based system [of ideas and stuff]. It is the participation of the whole of society that makes representative democracy in a capitalist framework work as well as it does.

    Ruling from the top cannot and will never work because a small number of elite can never come anywhere close to making the kinds of decisions that must happen in order to facilitate the workings of a complex economy. You could five hundred Einsteins in the government and it wouldn't matter...and THIS is what you people simply DO NOT GET!

    Look at what happened in the USSR. It was a total shitshow after the majority of folks realized what was going on. Look at every socialist policy that has been implemented in our country. Are any of them working? Are you proud of our cities? It doesn't work.

    I know that folks of the left see all of the injustice in life and wish they could do something about it and you can. Work hard, be as ethical as you can, support positive morality and take care of yourself and your family. Don't worry so much about everybody else. Allow them to take care of themselves.

    The best any of us can do is to work as hard as we can to provide the greatest number the greatest opportunities for success. How this happens is a work in progress that is best determined by everybody working towards these goals NOT by a group of people who believe they know best for everybody else. That doesn't work.

    Perhaps you can tell me how socialism can build this better world you folks desire. Tell me who has the intellect and foresight to be able to do better than 8B people making trillions of choices every single day. Because reality suggests that even the most intelligent among us are light-years away from coming anywhere close to reality in anything. Perhaps you understand this and perhaps not, but this is where the truth of matter resides.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
  19. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe it was rude. It's just an observation.

    Think what you like. I used the term because I am getting tired of irresponsible people who are destroying other people's lives. I am sure if somebody like this destroyed your home or business that you would not be pleased.

    I am anti-anybody who does stupid destructive things. You need to be able to view people outside of the left-right paradigm.

    We are not chatting about Trump. This is about the left and what they have been doing.

    You ever listen to these people in the Biden administration? I am not saying you have to be a member of Mensa to be constructive, but an IQ over 70 might be helpful. After all, when high post administration candidates are chosen for ideological reasons, what could possibly go wrong?
     
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't buy that for a moment. There has been zero effort to unite by either party. The only time the term "bipartisan" is used is when they are taking more of our money. This was his "deplorables" moment.

    The term MAGAs was fed to people to rebleat for the purpose of demonizing those with different beliefs. BTW, MAGA is just a campaign slogan people are happy to help spread. Notice the right is not referring those who voted for Hope and Change as HACs.


    For me, its about the issues and I place no value on the person or the image they project. I live in Los Angeles and often criticize the left for the problems they create because I see it every day. It may appear I lean to the right. In discussions about abortion, I get called a lefty.

    On the issue of the pendulum swinging, I did notice dems that supported a bigger, more powerful government question their beliefs when that power was handed to trump.
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tall on claims, short on evidence.

    Sorry, reeks of partisanship.
     
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    How about he provides some evidence? and then I'll give it a go. First things first.
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are no socialists in the ranks of liberals. So you're asking me to defend socialism is a strawman. Bad marks for you for making that assumption, you should have queried first. Your argument gives me the impression you make assumptions and paint large groups in broad strokes, and that is the mark of simplistic thinking, the mark of someone who doesn't make the distinction between the ideological and the practical reality.

    Socialists belong to the Socialist party. Even Democratic Socialists, when pinned down on the issue of state ownership of tools of production will back off from that stance, at least the few that I know who make that claim. Dem Socialists aren't really Socialists. I've known a few Socialists, and to them, they are capitalists. They are more into anarcho-syndicalism, the kind of crap Noam Chomsky is into, which I reject.

    Okay, you argument this time is only 'slightly' better. However....

    I can sum up your argument with two words, it is a

    Strawman argument.

    I'm a democrat, a liberal, not a socialist nor communist, so what, you want me to defend communism/socialism? That's a strawman. I can't defend socialism or marxism, or anarcho-syndicalism or whatever the term-de-jour is, these days.

    Neoliberalism, which is basically what you are preaching, is flawed, but the opposite of it is equally flawed (communism/socialism).

    Below is a summation of my political philosophy which I am reposting from:

    http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/politics-of-the-center-what-is-it.585857/

    There's a pendulum in politics. Swing too far to the left, it rebounds, and swings too far to the right. and vice versa, in a never ending going from one extreme to the other, and back again only to repeat.

    But where does the pendulum rest? Well, an actual pendulum, it rests upon arrival at the center. I feel this is a great metaphor for the political forces of the right and the left.

    But, to reach the center, once we figure out where that center is, I believe we must do it deliberately, as, without deliberation, the pendulum will continue to swing. There is disharmony and disfunction when the pendulum never rests. The trick is to put it to rest, in the center. in Russia and China it has swung too far to the right. With Trump, it was swinging far to the right, but the electorate said NO, and chose Biden. But, we have to be wary of swinging too far to the left, as well. So, let's define things.

    So, the place where the equilibrium of both forces are achieved is in the center.

    Now, this is not to be confused with 'centrism' as a political ideology, so what it is is the right balance of socialism and capitalism. So let me define what I mean by these things. I mean a government run enterprise is a socialistic enterprise, and a privately run enterprise is a capitalistic enterprise. Most western nations ( if not all of them ) are mixed economies, various ratios of both.

    That's how I am defining them here. There are other definitions, and the wiki entry on socialism is 150 pages long, so let's keep it simple. Many on the right accuse democrats of being 'socialist' in the hope people will associate this with the totalitarian countries, and thus reject it and vote for republicans, This is not being truthful, of course, because no democrat favors anything to do with totalitarianism, contrary to what many on the right are asserting. But, that's another argument.

    Now then. I'm going to make some opinionated declarations, based on my empirical observation of history.

    Socialism, without capitalism, will collapse.

    Capitalism, without socialism, will devour itself.

    So the trick is to understand what each does the best, and let each do just that.

    It's a public enterprise versus private enterprise thing.

    A public enterprise works better for what I will call, 'the negative markets'.

    What do I mean by that?

    These are things we need, and needs are things we absolutely must have, though we may, or may not want them.

    Okay, you don't want your house to be on fire, so we need a fire department to deal with it

    You don't want someone to steal or rob you or murder you, so we need to have a police, sheriff, and FBI to deal with such things.

    We don't want foreign countries to attack us, so we need a military to deal with it.

    Now, there are a few areas that can be done by both government and private, such as education.

    Public education is the guarantee that everyone will be educated, poor or affluent. Private education is not denied for anyone who can pay for it.

    So, it's mostly things we do not want, but need someone to deal with it, or public service for those who cannot afford the service, but which service is needed for everyone in order to achieve a literate, educated, nourished and healthy citizenry. This could include health care, food and housing, though all of these will have a large private counterpart.

    And, on the other side of the equation, we have what I will call 'the positive markets' these are things we want, such as shoes, clothes, cars, cars washed, carpets cleaned, lawns mowed, toys, goodies, food, boats, jewelry stuff we want and desire for our happiness, etc.

    So, public enterprise, negative markets ( mostly), things we need (socialism)
    private enterprise, positive markets ( mostly ) things we want. (capitalism)

    In short:

    Socialism for needs,
    Capitalism for wants.

    Note that there are shades of grey, and options for one or the other. The concept of 'socialism for needs, and capitalism for wants' is not a rigid concept, adjustments can be made, depending on the wants of the electorate. It is a starting point, a guiding principle, a point of reference for clarity when things get foggy.

    One country might favor government run critical and strategic services, such as post, railroad, and banking, healthcare, and another country these privately run, noting that in the vast majority of the 50 or so western countries, the health care model is some variant of universal health care.

    And the dynamics of public enterprises are quite different than a private enterprise.

    With a private enterprise, you must reward productivity and penalize non-productivity, and you must do this or go out of business.

    But, with a nation, a public enterprise, the dynamics are different. If you penalize the poor, and overly reward the rich too much, and penalize the poor too much for too log, whereupon the government becomes oppressive and caters to the rich, you could wind up with masses of people with pitchforks marching Washington, you could wind up with revolutions, and the outcomes of revolutions are never good. We demand, much more so, accountability and transparency of our public servants much more so than of our private entrepeneurs. Try doing a FOIA request on a corporation. Now, nothing is perfect, as it is written, the Declaration of Independence did not declare America to be a perfect union, only that we try and be a more perfect union. And yes, there is corruption, but it knows no borders between the public and private, and this is a subject for a nother thread, I'm dealing with philosophical concepts here.

    ( there is the grey area of the non -profit corporation, which is a hybrid, but I will not get into this here )

    You've never heard these terms (negative and positive markets ) because I just made them up, to illustrate a concept. So, don't hark back and say you've never heard of them. Of course you haven't, I've coined the ideas to illustrate my political philosophy.

    So, the idea is, socialism for individual needs and needs of society, and capitalism for individual wants, and wants of society.

    So, the idea isn't a centrist philosophy, the idea is the right balance of socialism
    ( government run enterprises ) and capitalism, ( privately run enterprises, and this includes corporations, LLCs, partnerships, and sole proprietorships, independent contractors), i.e., the idea is NOT to do away with either side of the pendulum, but achieve an equilibrium of both political forces. Finding the sweet spot, is what it is all about ( for me, anyway ) and that is the eternal struggle between the right and left, and there yes yet to be one leader who understands it fully, let alone explain it well to the electorate, so that everyone can agree on it.

    That is the general idea of my political philosophy, and, as such, it is not really a socialist philosophy, because true socialism is the pendulum too far to the left, where it will ultimately fail. All the way to the right is total anarchy which will never be anarchy, it will be an plutocracy/oligarchy because, in a libertarian world, capital will find it flowing to fewer and fewer hands, and power controlled by fewer and fewer people. So, this is why I don't agree with conservatives and libertarians and 'neoliberalism' in general.

    This can be true, (authoritarianism/totalitarianism) in a different way, in terms of central control, with communism/socialism and too far to the left, as evidenced by Soviet Russia, Cuba, N Korea, etc.

    However, in my view, the farthest and safest place away from both extremes is the most inert point, and that is the center. Because that is the ONLY place the pendulum can rest.

    The trick is, where, exactly, is the center? That is where the real debate is.

    For me, America will not achieve it without universal health care, allowing for private insurance for those who prefer it.

    ******************************************************************

    Now, if you want to debate me, debate me on the above points.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  24. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. Your post is based on the BigLiePropaganda that liberals are socialists, so you're a right-wing radical extremist, no matter how you classify yourself.

    Since propaganda is uninteresting, you're uninteresting.
     
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  25. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like I said, I can tell the difference.

    Do you apply that standard to the Jan 6 rioters? To the many Trump followers who have threatened violence and often carried out violent attacks on anyone who dares to cast doubt on Trump? Judges, attorneys, politicians ... they can all hire security. But poll workers?

    I think you need to take your own advice. As I clearly stated before, your comments are very right wing biased. It isn't even subtle.

    Trump is relevant to this issue. He is the personification of extreme right bias. I don't like the far left much better, but they aren't threatening death upon judges who rule against Democrats, as far as I know from looking it up.

    So, do you have any reason to believe that people with IQs under 70 are employed in key positions in the Biden administration? Or was that sarcasm? Sometimes it's hard to tell in an online written medium.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022

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