Galaxy without any dark matter baffles astronomers

Discussion in 'Science' started by cerberus, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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  2. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Who knows. If they end up being particles then we might one day being able to tame and utilize them like we did with the electron, photon, and other matter particles. But, yeah, if it just brings us one step closer to figuring out the ultimate fate of the universe then it's probably more like chewing gum for the brain. I still find it interesting either way.
     
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  3. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps what really matters is the acknowledgment of just how much we, as a species, don't know, or understand. I think that provides an excellent plane though for future work.
     
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  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - an' ya ain't gonna see any either - `cause it's too dark to see...
    [​IMG]
    Astronomers find galaxy without any dark matter
    Fri, Mar 30, 2018 - Stupefied astronomers on Wednesday unveiled the first and only known galaxy without dark matter, the invisible and poorly understood substance thought to make up a quarter of the universe.
     
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  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our model of physics isn't good enough to explain our universe.
    https://home.cern/about/physics/standard-model

    I don't believe it's rational to stop at a point where our model of physics just doesn't answer the questions of physics that are so easy for us to ask today.

    Einstein trashed much of existing physics with his relativity theory - a revolution that had major ramifications for humans. And, it came at a time when physics had been cruising along without many seeing physics as being particularly interesting.

    We could well be headed toward a similar revelation.

    Would such a next step be as impactful as Einstein's?

    My wild guess is that it is pretty hard to judge that, coming from our current situation. But, it's totally insane to simply stop learning.
     
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  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    (thinks) :roll: There's no hope for him, and yet he seems such a nice guy. I'll just have to write him off as one of my failures!
     
  7. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You have had resounding success along those
    lines ! !
     
  8. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    With all due modesty, I suspect a few readers of my thoughtful and thought-provoking posts have gone away to think about it all. :cool: Mebbe you should, too, because you're letting them fool you. :nod:
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Hanging your hat on a substance that cannot be detected or measured just tells me that cosmologists have some serious holes in their knowledge.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming it is dark matter that you are talking about here.

    So, I'll point out that dark matter can be measured through gravitational effects on matter that can be directly detected.
     
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  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No. It isn't measured and certainly not detected. It is calculated because the calculation fills a hole in our knowledge. It is a mathematical construct designed to provide an explanation for something we don't understand. In other words things work as we think they do as long as we include dark matter in the equation. But things probably work in some other way that we don't yet understand. That's fine. Good science will likely work it all out in the future.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    By "measured" I mean that the amount of this factor can be measured by calculating the "hole" (as you put it) when observing the behavior of all directly detected matter.

    So, if our sun were somehow invisible, one could "measure" its mass by evaluating the behavior of the planets.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    But planets do not orbit dark matter. There is no interaction between dark matter and visible matter. Dark matter isn't matter. It is mathematics. It may exist or it may not. I'm on the may not side of the equation because it cannot be detected. It is a popular concept with cosmologists because it explains the way they think things work. If things work in some other manner, then it doesn't have to exist.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There IS gravitational interaction, and that is measurable.

    I don't know why dark matter hasn't been found to aggregate by gravity into dense objects that would be able to maintain nearby satellites.

    That's an interesting point.

    You are more than free to propose some other explanation of how things work. But, I would suggest it is highly unlikely that the measurements made by astrophysicists have systematic error so large as to make dark matter merely a mistake.
     
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  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how things work. Astronomical science doesn't either. It is fun that they are working on it. That is how we learn how things work.
     
  16. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If this is true, how is that different from the religious true believers believing in something which cannot be seen nor measured? The religious folks catch hell from the people who try to use science to negate God, which cannot be seen nor measured...yet if science does it, then it is fine? What am I missing here?
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Who said it is fine? Certainly not I. I just said I think science is wrong about dark matter. It is an opinion. I said nothing at all about religion. I'll leave that to you.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You went farther than that. You said, "I don't know how things work. Astronomical science doesn't either." Earlier you said dark matter couldn't be measured.

    I'm ok with you doubting that dark matter exists - though it's a minority opinion.

    But, I'm not as impressed by your sweeping rejection of astrophysics.
     

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