Geology, physics, high tides question.

Discussion in 'Science' started by DennisTate, Jun 28, 2016.

?

Will tides be up by 4.5 meters in some places?

  1. No.... they will only rise by one foot, 30 cms.

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  2. Tides will be higher in places by at most 5X.

    0 vote(s)
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  3. Tides will be up but only about 10X.

    0 vote(s)
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  4. Yes... tides will be up by 15X in a few places.

    2 vote(s)
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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK.... .I will go through this slowly....
    and as clearly as I can.........

    Since the difference from low tide to high tide where I live is roughly one meter......... (due to their being negligible funnelling effect on high tide levels where I live)......... and because the Bay of Fundy has both a funnelling effect... .as well as high tide water piling on top of previous high tide water that has not been able to fully drain back into the Atlantic Ocean...... THEN.....

    In the areas in this image..... .the areas that at this time have high tides up by 6 meters..... should expect an ADDITIONAL
    six feet to probably be added to their high tides....... IF..... average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)

    [​IMG]

    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 7 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional seven feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 8 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional eight feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.

    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 9 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional nine feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 10 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional ten feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 11 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional eleven feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 12 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional twelve feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 13 meters at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional thirteen feet to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.


    In the areas in this image that experience high tides of 14 meters or more at this time......
    If average ocean levels were to rise by one foot, (30 cms)... those areas should expect an additional fourteen feet or more to
    probably be added to their high tide levels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Goodbye Dennis.....I am done with trying....Good Luck:)
     
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  3. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    as long as the ice accumulated and stayed on the Antarctic itself it may not be a problem... but if the ice self on the coast hold back the glaciers on the mainland and if those ice shelfs break up than it's like pulling the cork out of champagne bottle, that's where the sea rise comes from...
    greenland glaciers are further advanced in melting so responsible for the greatest initial sea level rise...

    if it makes you feel any better you and I will both be dead before you need to worry about your property...your kids/grandkids though may want to sell the land and move to higher ground...

    Miami...yeah I foresee a huge drop in property values in 30-50yrs...some people think they can do what the dutch have done and wall off the sea and save their homes but difference in scale of the dutch coast compared to the low lying areas of the USA is enormous, and the dutch had a 3000 year head start...
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or....... humanity can grab onto a mega- project....... or even several of them.........
    turn many of the world's deserts green.... and divert a similar amount of desalinated water into water tables in dry
    areas........ as is cracking and sliding off the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the landbased Greenland Ice Pack........
    and the world's glaciers combined.................

    Australia is in an exceptional position to assist America with the 4.3 trillion USA petro-dollars that China, George Soros and others are dumping on the markets at this time.............


    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/should-sorek-2-be-in-australia-or-california.530861/


     
  5. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    no amount of geo engineering projects are going to save your property from sea level rise...climate change is here and the damage to come is assured, humanity can only hope to survive it now...

    far less expensive than dangerous geo engineering projects that could backfire horrible would be to stop out burning carbon fuels...but even then it's still too late to prevent what's coming...
     
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  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OK. But, let's at least agree that it isn't quite that binary.

    We still have an opportunity to reduce and prolong whatever it is that is inevitable.

    And, that is super important as we do need time - we are not set up to deal with the impacts that warming will bring.
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WillReadmore..... I should warn you that your replies to the M. P. Bill Casey discussion might just get quite a bit of attention if this grabs the imagination of some groups that assist........

    Andrew Scheer, I am willing to take on either M. P. Sean Fraser or M.P. Bill Casey.
     
  8. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    agreed it's not impossible but I'm not optimistic... some would say there is a chance if we rid ourselves of our carbon burning addiction... but we can't even get the deniers to agree to something as simple as a carbon tax to discourage carbon fuels because apparently climate change is all a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese so they can sell solar panels...if we can't get any agreement to proceed on a simple coarse of action in the short term I'm skeptical anything meaningful will happen long term until it's too late...we have politicians cashing in on fighting carbon tax as an election ploy and party loyalists buying into it, a few cents extra on fuel per gallon vs planetary survival, hmmm yeah that's farsighted...

    I don't know if you've seen the latest projections of climate changing getting out of hand this century resulting in an extinction event, civilization collapse resulting in mass deaths and a global population drop to 500 million by the end of the century...quite bleak if that turns out to be accurate...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen the latest.

    But, given what we're doing about it, I'm sure it's getting worse. I've heard that the methane bomb in Canada is beginning.

    Somehow, the right wing got this topic to be a political issue rather than a science issue.

    Thus, America became STUPID again.
     
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  10. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    I won't live it to mid century to see it, for my kids sake I certainly hope that projection isn't accurate...

    yeah in canada and russia the permafrost is melting, there's a scary amount of CO2 locked up in the northern latitudes... and then there's the methane...
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK... but can you see why .... considering that the lake that my house is beside is classified as tidal water.......
    that fact might tend to cause me to be so interested in this alternative theory on climate stabilization put forward by New Mexico biologist Carl Cantrell... .that I would quote him in my 2008 campaign writing? (Post #3):


    My 2006, 2008, 2016 and 2004 campaign writings as ART.

    And... . can you see why I am thinking that because Mr. Donald Trump is now President of the USA this would make this alternative theory on climate stabilization a potential way to get American Republicans and Canadian Conservatives interested in attempting to address the threat of rising ocean levels?

    A carbon tax will NOT work fast enough to address WAIS collapse.

    Am I entirely in error to be thinking that every cubic meter of ocean water that is desalinated and added to the water table of Israel, Jordan, Tunisia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Texas or California.... .is actually GOOD NEWS for people who own land and homes along the eastern part of Canada's Bay of Fundy?

    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?


    Megascale Desalination
    The world’s largest and cheapest reverse-osmosis desalination plant is up and running in Israel.



     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  12. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    if your thinking deep Aquifers like in California's Imperial Valley can be restored once depleted, they can't once they're drained the damage is permanent...in some areas the land has subsided as much as 25 ft as the aquifers were drained and can no longer recover the water holding ability...
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    No, the specifics of that landscape and placement cause an increase of the tidal height above the basemark (tidal level). They do not cause an actual increase. So if the tidal level (sea level) increases by 1 foot, the tide will increase by 1 foot. And the more the sea level increases (or decreases), the more likely something will happen to disrupt it.

    For example, finding a weakness in the surrounding rocks and finding a new avenue for the water to flow into. Because as any tides rose, eventually another avenue would be found for the water to go. And eventually a point might be reached where only so much water could go in and out of the expanding bay at any given time. This is basically what happened in the Med. It's tidal flow has always lagged from that of the Atlantic Ocean, because of the restriction of the Straight of Gibraltar.
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I consider your reply to be exceptional..........
    one of the best that I got back so far....... but I think you may be in error though!

    It is that piling on of one high tide...... on top of the previous high tide that could not fully drain..... that alters the whole formula there.
     
  15. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Kingdoms are going to fall for want of trees.
     
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is an exceptionally good point though.......
    the land in that area is quite flat........ so a one foot increase in
    average ocean levels could produce high tides along the Bay of Fundy that yes..... they might not rise by
    fifteen feet near Truro but........ they might flood out in larger and larger areas ...... which is really
    the point that I was attempting to get across.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your answer has helped me greatly...... if I had set up the poll in such a way that I could change my answer I would now.......

    "*
    Yes... tides will be up by 15X in a few places."

    This is my original answer.. .but now I would answer......


    "Tides will be higher in places by at most 5X."


    My reason for this is because the eastern area of the Bay of Fundy.......... is very flat.......
    and at a low sea level...... I believe less than five meters above sea level...... so as the elevated tide would come in......
    it would flood a larger and larger area..... but....... it would not rise by 15X due to the ability of that large flat area to
    take in more and more water.

    This does fit with my original thesis though..... that this is a serious issue that people in Nova Scotia should be discussing.......
    and looking for possible solutions to...... My favourite is a combined effort with Israel, Australia and the USA.........
    and I am hoping to bring England into this shortly.......



    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Is still faulty.

    Tides will increase, period. If it rises say 2", it rises 2" globally. Period.

    Now there are increased effects in local areas, based upon the local geology. Myself and other have listed them. Some are due to the geology and weather creating funnels, like the Med. Rise ocean levels 2" and the average of the Med will also increase by 2". But the lage and slight differences will remain constant.

    Now take the case of say the Turnagain Arm. That is largely because of both a funnel effect, and how shallow the body of water actually is. Increase mean Sea Level by say 10 meters, odds are you will no longer have that at all, and it will remain just another bay. The very unique geology of the entire arm is below sea level during low tide is what makes that entire rush of water in and out possible.

    Even if all the ice on the planet melted, the tide differential would remain the same. Between 2 and 4 meters. It simply would have a higher baseline.
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I posed the following question on Facebook and got back what I consider to be a truly brilliant response:

    Common Sense Conservatives for Maxime Bernier
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/695775904114191/






    Mervyn DePendleton:
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said.... here is a related article on this phenomena from a local newspaper.......

    https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/r...reaten-low-lying-isthmus-of-chignecto-247312/

    High tides threaten low-lying Isthmus of Chignecto

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  21. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Are you sounding an alarm or just contemplating a "what if"?
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both...........
    I live less than a hundred miles from that area.......
    I am genuinely worried...... but I have two good theories on how to respond so far......

    1. Mega -scale desalination of ocean water in California, Israel, Texas, Jordan, Qatar, Australia, Saudi Arabia... and anywhere else with lots of desert........ on such a scale as to keep world ocean levels stable.

    2. A relief canal may be necessary in the eastern Bay of Fundy area due to the geography of the area.
    (Please scroll up to post #144 and 145 here on this page.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even our local newspapers are talking about this trend.

    https://www.trurodaily.com/news/local/atlantic-canada-is-sinking-as-water-levels-swell-247264/

    Atlantic Canada is sinking as water levels swell
    The series can be seen here:

    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-seas/

    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-s...-project-to-focus-on-realigning-dikes-247332/
    RISING SEAS: Saint Mary's University prof begins project to focus on realigning dikes

    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-seas/halifax-surging-ahead-on-plan-for-rising-sea-levels-247326/

    Halifax surging ahead on plan for rising sea levels

    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-s...nt-building-for-the-future-in-halifax-247327/

    Queen’s Marque development building for the future in Halifax


    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-s...rnments-shore-up-climate-change-plans-247280/
    As land disappears, governments shore up climate change plans


    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-s...ion-pending-the-province-said-in-june-247306/

    Protecting Nova Scotia's coastline: legislation pending, the province said in June


    https://www.trurodaily.com/rising-seas/high-tides-threaten-low-lying-isthmus-of-chignecto-247312/

    High tides threaten low-lying Isthmus of Chignecto
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's not just sea rise - it's also land subsidence.

    Scientists say New Orleans is sinking due to compaction of the delta it's built on and due to the extraction of "liquids" (water and oil). So, the combined rate is the highest in the US.

    Interesting NOAA tool for viewing sea rise in the USA. Unfortunately, it doesn't include the world.
    https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/#/layer/...atellite/none/0.8/2050/interHigh/midAccretion
     
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  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    New Orleans is built on a delta. In other words, it is not really land at all geologically, but built up mounds of silt.

    And when you change the course of a river or do other things to affect the hydrology, it sinks. New silt is not built up, and the weight continues to compress what is already there.

    This has nothing to do with oil drilling, or the extraction of anything. The moment they started to change the river and build on this unstable soil, it was doomed. They need to either build giant walls around it and accept that it is going to be completely underwater someday, or move it.

    Because ultimately, it will continue to sink no matter what is done. Either that, or evacuate everything and let the river resume it's course over the city. So in a few centuries another delta silt bar will rise up in it's place.

    The exact same thing is seen all over the US, and all over the world. Venice, Florida, North Carolina, wherever you build upon unstable soil-silt-sand against water, the water is always going to try and take it back. Or it is going to try and move. The problem is that some humans think they are able to stop this from happening.
     
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