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Gillard's Carbon Tax a futile achievment

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by dumbanddumber, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Listening to Julia Gillard over the weekend trying to tell us all how much she has achieved while she has been PM especially when it comes to carbon pricing really made me sick.

    She sees carbon pricing as an achievement when 80% of Australians see it as a tax rip of that will send billions of Australian tax payer’s money overseas.

    These politicians are still following the IPCC model which has been shown to be false, so how can they still be following it, especially when over thirty thousand scientists who don’t work for the IPCC have come out and against the IPCC findings.

    The fact that she sees this as probably her greatest achievement in getting the pricing carbon mechanism through parliament means that she will just not be told that her supposed “the science is in” is actually wrong, I think this alone will be her greatest down fall at the next election.

    Would it be too embarrassing for her to come out and say that the majority of scientists who don’t work for the IPCC don’t actually agree with the model the UN’s IPCC is presenting?

    If she were to come out and say that we will reassess the information we have been given wouldn’t this give her much needed credit from the Australian public, instead of blindingly leading us into financial slavery, is she too far down the road to make a U-turn?

    I recon it’s never too late and admitting making a mistake certainly shows she is human rather than trying to push a tax on the Australian public that most Australians don’t want.

    Ok we’ve done this a thousand times before but here it is again.

    95% of global warming is caused by the water vapor in our atmosphere.

    The total amount of CO2 in our atmosphere is 0.039%

    From that total amount or CO2 being 0.039% manmade contributions are 3%,

    That’s 3% of 0.039 = 0.00117

    From that 0.00117 Australia’s contribution is 1.5% = 0.00001755.

    In other words our contribution is negligible compared to the rest of the world, yet Gillard will impose the most expensive carbon tax of any other country on the planet at $23/tonne because we contribute a whopping 1.5% of all manmade CO2 that’s 0.00001755.

    She has also said that this is the starting price and its set increase 2.5% above inflation so that’s inflation plus 2.5%, now that doesn’t sound as though it’s capped to me.

    Look at the effects it is already having, automotive industries are closing, Aluminum smelters are closing, and imagine all the support industries that keep these going and how many people will be affected. Not to mention what it will do to our mining sector in the near future.

    When Julia told us that the cost will be passed on to consumers she wasn’t kidding, everything will go up from clothes to food to energy you name it, what doesn’t use energy along the way somewhere.

    Now this PM Julia Gillard is a monumental liar and imo can’t be trusted.

    She said that every dollar raised from the carbon tax will go back to Australian Industry and Australian families, she forgot to mention that 10% of the revenue raised from the carbon tax will be given to the United Nation Environmental fund.

    The carbon tax is set to yield approximately 9 billion dollars a year therefore Gillard and Bob Brown are very comfortable in handing over $900 million dollars from the Australian tax payer to the UN every year.

    Now wait on a minute here, is that money her daddy’s money or is it from her own fortune or estate for her and Bob to hand it over to the UN.

    That’s nearly $3 billion dollars in three years.

    That money should be going back into the Australian economy thank you very much.

    I don’t know about you guys but that sounds like treason to me, Swan, Gillard and Brown are traitors to this nation and they have sold us into financial slavery.

    As long as Gillard claims carbon pricing as an achievement this government is headed for the toilet at the next election.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBx_WaIE6o4"]Every Australian Should Watch This - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Member

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    This was a challenge from HER OWN PARTY not from the opposition. Kevin Rudd took the ETS to the 2007 election but failed to get it through parliament when he was PM. Gillard did get it through. Hence this is an achievement for Gillard over Rudd. If successfully implementing ALP policy is not an achievement for the ALP leader, then what exactly is?
     
  3. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Yes ziggy

    Rudd did say he was in favour of an ETS, but when he got back from one of those meetings he said that even though he was in favour of it,

    "NOW IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME FOR AUSTRALIA"

    And poof he was gone and Gillard was in.

    Now ziggy i'm all for cleaning the environment and our pollution but i dont buy into this CO2 crap we are being feed, CO2 has nothing to do with warming the planet, if you want to look at warming the planet take a look at the water vapour and how that behaves in warming our planet.

    The other thing that gets to me with all you guys who support the carbon tax blindly is.

    How on Earth can farming carbon credits and derivatives on the stock exchange contribute to cleaning up our pollution, dude its one big casino.

    How can you guys be fooled into believing this will work!

    But the biggest joke of all is how Gillard thinks its an achievement when 80% of Australians KNOW its a rip of.

    To me she must be working for the United nations, Bankers and Wall Street to implement such ridiculous legislation knowing too well its political suicide to do so.

    But once its in it will be hard getting it out, unless we all protest rather ferocioucly.

    The biggest joke is she thinks its a great achievment but this act alone has made her one of the most hated PMs i can remember.

    Actually the worst PM of all time.

    Nothing hard about it Julia just bad treasoness policy.
     
  4. The Lepper

    The Lepper New Member

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    How can you refer to such propaganda and still pretend that it matters?

    http://www.desmogblog.com/30000-global-warming-petition-easily-debunked-propaganda

    On the contrary, to come out and agree with such an absurd petition would be a suicidal blow.
     
  5. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Taken from here
    http://www.petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php

    Qualifications of Signers

    Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

    The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

    All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

    The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become interested.

    Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven categories.

    1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,805 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.

    2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 935 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.

    3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,812 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.

    4. Chemistry includes 4,822 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.

    5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,965 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.

    6. Medicine includes 3,046 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.

    7. Engineering and general science includes 10,102 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.

    The following outline gives a more detailed analysis of the signers' educations.

    Atmosphere, Earth, & Environment (3,805)

    1. Atmosphere (579)

    I) Atmospheric Science (112)
    II) Climatology (39)
    III) Meteorology (343)
    IV) Astronomy (59)
    V) Astrophysics (26)


    2. Earth (2,240)

    I) Earth Science (94)
    II) Geochemistry (63)
    III) Geology (1,684)
    IV) Geophysics (341)
    V) Geoscience (36)
    VI) Hydrology (22)


    3. Environment (986)

    I) Environmental Engineering (487)
    II) Environmental Science (253)
    III) Forestry (163)
    IV) Oceanography (83)


    Computers & Math (935)

    1. Computer Science (242)

    2. Math (693)

    I) Mathematics (581)
    II) Statistics (112)


    Physics & Aerospace (5,812)

    1. Physics (5,225)

    I) Physics (2,365)
    II) Nuclear Engineering (223)
    III) Mechanical Engineering (2,637)


    2. Aerospace Engineering (587)

    Chemistry (4,822)

    1. Chemistry (3,129)

    2. Chemical Engineering (1,693)

    Biochemistry, Biology, & Agriculture (2,965)

    1. Biochemistry (744)

    I) Biochemistry (676)
    II) Biophysics (68)


    2. Biology (1,438)

    I) Biology (1,049)
    II) Ecology (76)
    III) Entomology (59)
    IV) Zoology (149)
    V) Animal Science (105)


    3. Agriculture (783)

    I) Agricultural Science (296)
    II) Agricultural Engineering (114)
    III) Plant Science (292)
    IV) Food Science (81)


    Medicine (3,046)

    1. Medical Science (719)

    2. Medicine (2,327)

    General Engineering & General Science (10,102)

    1. General Engineering (9,833)

    I) Engineering (7,280)
    II) Electrical Engineering (2,169)
    III) Metallurgy (384)


    2. General Science (269)
     
  6. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Just exactly who are the IPCC?

    Is it Al Gore's nobel peace prize crap that is being implemented?

    FFS he is a politician!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change

    Just exactly what was it that Al Gore did to earn the noble peace prize?

    I thought you had to be a scientist who had made a historical new find or something along those lines.

    Not a politician going around spreading bullsh!t about a topic he has no grasp of.

    Watch this you might learn something
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBx_WaIE6o4"]Every Australian Should Watch This - YouTube[/ame]
     
  7. Metal_Jockets

    Metal_Jockets New Member

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    By introducing a cost on carbon is most certainly an achievement by PM Gillard , much like the achievement Ronald Biggs felt right after The Great Robbery.
     
  8. The Lepper

    The Lepper New Member

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    My point exactly.

    Further proof of this petitions complete lack of integrity:

    Also see: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph..._and_Medicine#Case_Study:_The_Oregon_Petition

    That has a thorough analysis of the reality of this petition.
     
  9. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Well we have phd's masters and what not in all sciences computer modelling chemistry etc etc.

    Quite an elite group of people, well educated and naturally concerned about the wool being pulled over the eyes of the world.

    Better than a politician with a sales pitch dont you recon who isn't qualified to present anything on the subject, but is gearing up to make a good superannuation fund for himself.

    Yeah my point exactly?!
     
  10. The Lepper

    The Lepper New Member

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    Did you even read my post?

    Ignoring the fake names, scientists who now reject the petition, the repeated names, the deceased, the corporate business names, the scientists who don't even remember any such petition, the signatures that are first names only and the scientists who 'signed' the petition based on an 'informal evaluation', lets look at the very basis for this list:

    Claiming this petition holds any weight is intellectually dishonest.
     
  11. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Member

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    Oh, so it wasn't the right time when BOTH parties took it to the election as a centre piece of their policy agenda? After he tried and failed 3 times to get it through parliament? When he was trying to push through a super mining tax? When News Corp and the mining lobby where killing the party numbers with more effective media campaigning than he could muster? Oh wow, it's so surprising that he backed down and tried to cover his arse.

    If he didn't think it was the "right time" to act on the "biggest moral challenge of our generation" when he spent what, 40 billion or something on a stimulus, then wtf does that say about him really? What a load of bollucks.

    It "wasn't the right time" because he failed, plain and simple.

    So John Howard was campaigning on a stupid policy that wouldn't work was he? So were Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull?? Oh great!

    But wait, there's more! Tony Abbott who has a completely and utterly ridiculous and stupid policy of "direct action", which is going to be payed for BY TAXES, completely unbudgted and who pretty much every credible economist says will end up costing MORE than an ETS if he has any hope of achieving the cuts he committed to, this is the alternative plan we should vote for? This is "the will of the people"?

    Just no.

    You don't want any action on climate change, NO MAJOR PARTY AGREES WITH YOU. I'm not arguing about whether Co2 warms the planet, I just cannot be bothered anymore.

    I have no idea who you're going to vote for, but it shouldn't be the Coalition or the ALP. In fact better the ALP than the coalition, at least their policy is budgeted and backed by economists. Rather than Abbott's "green army" of 15,000 public servants and a giant gaping BLACK HOLE in the budget which could easily spiral out of control in spending on highly experimental schemes chosen by GOVERNMENT and NOT BY BUSINESS.
     
  12. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Dumb,
    what are you so afraid off?
    The last time I was on a business trip in Europe, I was amazed of how much they invested in wind turbines and solar power. Most households had a strict
    waste separation and most of their family cars had smaller motors compared to our Falcons and Commodores.
    Most houses had at least double glazed windows, and if you build a new home tripple glazed windows are a must(eg. Germany).
    As a western nation with the pretension of being worldclass we should not fall further behind. If a carbon price is set, it would only mean that in order to pay very little of this price, we have to minimize our carbon footprint.
    I think that is a positive way in combatting climate change, although I would still prefer a direct action plan.
    To me it looks like you fall too much of Mr. Abbotts scare mongering politics.
    I assume, that when Libs get into power, we will fall even further behind others, which with a rising sea level and other challenges we cannot allow to happen.
    Even China is taking a bigger approach on climate change then we do.
    You want proof? Ever car exported to China from Europe has to have the latest technology in regards to emissions(eg. Euro 6 standard), which is not always the case with the cars we receive from Europe.
    Regards
     
  13. Recusant

    Recusant New Member

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    I might be mistaken, but you see that snake logo? That looks a lot like the stupid "don't tread on me" American political organisations. Who produced that clip please. "Vote 1"? Is this somehow a different, acceptable political view?

    Go to "http://www.koozzoo.com/" (who made it) and listen to the woman - it's a fricken paid piece. "We produce news and commentary from $149 for a fifteen second news teaser and $100 for the next 15 seconds to 30 seconds and $100 for every 30 seconds thereafter."

    How is that any different to the stuff you criticise? Worse, i can't see who asked for it to be made! It's a frigin' press release, like you see in the newspaper with the word "advertisement" on it (or not, when they are lazy, corrupt or incompetent).
     
  14. bugalugs

    bugalugs Banned

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    Why do you keep posting that video? You have been shown it was made by a nutbag.
     
  15. bugalugs

    bugalugs Banned

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    He has already been shown that his source is insane:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/1060838045-post5.html
    Yet he still keeps posting it.

    Make of that what you will
     
  16. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    I dont really care who the presenter is, ie. Mickey Mouse or Homer Simpson.

    The content is whats important and the content in this video is TRUE.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBx_WaIE6o4"]Every Australian Should Watch This - YouTube[/ame]
     
  17. efjay

    efjay New Member

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    Once the Libs win the next election and repeal this co2 tax ( read scam tax ) no party will be stupid enough to try the bs again. There is no need for it.
     
  18. Recusant

    Recusant New Member

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    Says who? You're a plant.
     
  19. bugalugs

    bugalugs Banned

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    What you have is a list of 0.3% of all science graduates in the USA.

    0.3%

    None of whom have ever published any actual research on global warming. Just a tiny handful of retarded high school science teachers who believe in conspiracy theories.

    Do you really belive that the CSIRO and the BOM are all involved in some giant conspiracy?


    Really?!?!?

    Climate change is real
    Our observations clearly demonstrate that climate change is real. CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology will continue to provide observations and research so that Australia’s responses are underpinned by science of the highest quality.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/inside/eiab/State-of-climate-2010-updated.pdf
     
  20. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Well then knock it of its pedestal then!

    Where are the lies or misinformation on the video.

    Look forward to your analysis.
     

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