God demands nothing and life is not a fight

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greenleft, Aug 28, 2021.

  1. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing written there that suggest sex perversion by Abraham or Melchizedek. Neither was Abraham a murderer. They were at war and war is war. And, Melchizedek is simply the high priest of Salem that Abraham paid his tithes to. How can you read so poorly?
     
  2. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Jesus character never gave the poor anything. Why do you think you are better than him? Besides, he said that you should do your good deeds in secret, but since you boast about them you get a one-way ticket to the lake of fire.
     
  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Have you forgotten how the pervert Abraham sliced off all of his buddies foreskins? Was he that hungry?

    Abraham and his 318 man - strong band of killers had gone on a murdering rampage and destroyed the area. The heretic Melchizedek came out with some mumbo-jumbo and got his cut for saying what a wonderful guy the killer Abraham was.
     
  4. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    What does the following mean exactly, "All you need to do is ask for love, and it shall be granted"?.

    This appears to be an assertion. If so, what is your basis/proof for this assertion.

    Likewise, what is your basis/proof for your assertion that we are the children of God?

    Your statements seem to be more or less based on feelings. And generally speaking feelings are not a pathway to truth.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    In the biblical fairy tale, only Jews are the children of God. Everyone else is like spit.
     
  6. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    If I said that to one of my Christian friends or family members, I would get the standard "that was the Old Covenant, we are now covered by the New Covenant" cliché.
     
  7. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did have money either. But, he gave of whatever they (Jesus and his Apostles) grew and had to the poor. Heck, he gave thousands of fish and loaves of bread to hungry people waiting to hear him speak. He gave healings to leapers and many other that you don't because you reject faith in Jesus Christ. What have you given to the poor, the needy, the sick and afflicted? Nothing but attempts to destroy the faith of the faithful.
     
  8. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    War is war. People die in war. But, in this case, those of Sodom were evil killers, rapists and kidnapers. The war was necessary to stop them. I suppose you are happy that Afghanistan is back in the control of the Taliban? Abraham gave freely of his increase. He had faith in the Lord and did so with a clear conscience. Melchizedek was the "bishop" in charge of the ancient church at the time and received tithes and offerings that people freely give. No one was pressured in any way to give. The same is done today. The ones forcing people to be separated from their assets is Government politicians and bureaucrats in the way of taxes. Tithing is not taxation for it is freely given.
     
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  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I know you know better than that.

    The stories about the loaves and fishes are about hospitality. Jesus and his buddies had sense enough to take a lunch with them when they went into the wilderness. So did all of the other folks. But the custom was that you had to offer food to others before you started eating. The people were hungry and they didn't want to share what they had to others and end up with nothing for themselves. Therefore, Jesus told his buddies to walk out into the crowd and offer them what they had. Once the people saw that they became embarrassed about their behavior and pulled out their own lunches and started offering it to others. Then everyone did it and they had food left over. The fairy tale has lots of stories about hospitality, including the story about Sodom and Jesus's
    parables about sharing.

    Have you forgotten the story about the costly perfume Jesus received and refused to sell so that he could give the money to the poor? He said "screw them" because he wanted it for himself. Matthew 26:7-13
     
  10. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to dive deeper into the meaning of love, but what I mean is to find happiness and peace of mind. Is that not what we all desire? If we but still our minds in meditation, we can manifest the happiness and peace of mind we want.

    As for proof that we are all children of God, I would refer you back to my answer to your first post. It may be an extraordinary claim, but you know what's even more extraordinary? The concept of God's elect. That I cannot buy into. How are we children of God as opposed to other creations? We have the ability to form concepts of things like God and contemplate the meaning of our existence and ponder the mystery that is time and space.

    Religion and spirituality is indeed based on feelings. It's all about anxiety reduction and finding happiness and peace of mind. It's not really in pursuit of any logical and observable truth. I would say to seek out truth wherever and whatever it may be. I don't claim to be the holder of absolute truth. I admit I might be wrong.

    To other theists and agnostics I would ask: Is not my outlook friendlier and healthier as opposed to one where you must worry for the salvation of others and perform a song and dance for some weak and petty deity?

    To the atheist I would ask: How is my outlook and method of anxiety reduction detrimental to my well being and that of society? Also, if you have a better way to help me find meaning and purpose so I can get out of bed every day and go through the motions of life, I'd be very interested to hear about it.
     
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  11. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree. Feelings, meditation, are the ONLY pathway to truth. It is the inner guidance system that we were all gifted with to guide us through this life. Everything else is a distortion of ultimate truth and higher self. Religion, politics, and other forms of dogma appeal more to our egos than our spiritual selves.
     
  12. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Absolute Truth is not subjective. If feelings/meditations etc. are the path to truth why do people develop contradicting and conflicting claims using this path?

    The scientific method and reliance on empirical evidence have produced results, i.e., humans no longer living a "quest for fire" (reference to movie) lifestyle.

    [​IMG]

    What verifiable truth has come from feelings and meditation? By feelings I assume you are referring to intuition.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  13. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure, the scientific method is great. Advancements in science have allowed us to do wonderful things. But has also allowed us to do terrible things. Facts and science is not the same as truth I don’t think.

    I do know this. When I began my own spiritual path, began seriously meditating, my life has become infinitely better. Opportunities just line up, with little effort, Money has become less of a problem, my relationships with friends and family have improved ten fold, my mental and physical well being has improved immensely, and I feel truly happy, and at peace with my place in the universe. It all comes from silencing that voice of ego and and letting the sense of “I am”, your higher self, guide you and manifest the life you were meant to live.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love my science. I’m neck deep in 3 different science courses this semester, and I love them. Spirituality and science are not exclusive of each other I don’t think. One day I think we will find that they are very much related.
     
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  14. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    I just read the first line and knew you were trying to blow smoke up where the sun doesn't shine. The loaves and fishes were his and he gave them of what he has. That is what hospitality is. So is tithing and offerings to the poor and the needy. Again, you have not given a dime to anyone. Have you. You keep side-stepping this question. Atheists haven't a clue what hospitality is and what giving to the poor and the needy. It takes faith.
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Do you really think that the Jesus character and his gang had enough bread and fish to feed 5,000 people? I wonder how many 18-wheelers they needed to lug that up the mountain?

    Why do you need faith to give stuff to the poor and needy? What are you hoping to get in return?
     
  16. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    To your first question. You haven't read the story, have you. The fish and bread just kept coming out of the baskets. No trucks needed. Or, in those days, camels. Just the Lord's miracle recorded by those in attendance.
    To your second question, why don't you give to the poor and the needy? Because you won't get anything in return, correct...Yep...
     
  17. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    It's not so much putting limitations on God as much as some of those things are beneath God. God asking you to dip your head in water and partake of bread and whine is akin to God asking you to hop and say "I am a Kangaroo! woo hoo!" God does not need people to do those things to feel loved or feel powerful.
     
  18. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    How would you know if something is beneath God? That is an example of placing limits on God. If God wants to come down and perform a healing for a leaper, who are we to tell God he can't?
    Our Lord God said take this bread and partake of it for it is a remembrance of my body. Should we deny the sacraments because we think it's beneath God when he gave us the ordinance to do?
    If God wants me to hop around, I'll say, "How high?" And, we are God's literal spirit children. He wants us to return to him after our probation on Earth and hopefully fulfilling all that he requires us to do because he loves us. He says he's a jealous God so he does expect us to follow His commandments and not put limitations on his instructions.
     
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  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    It is crucial to remember God. I was just reading Nephi's writings about shortly after leaving Jerusalem with his family. And his older brothers being angry with him for remembering and rehearing to them their Father Lehi's visions and the miracles they themselves witnessed. Nephi had to remind them because they had so quickly forgotten and not kept God in remembrance, and wanted to go their own way contrary to their Fathers desires and Gods will. As I read on, it seemed that forgetfulness was the cause of all their divisions, and eventually what separated them as Brothers and peoples. Nephi and his people kept God in remembrance. His brothers and their people did not. What they kept in remembrance was the the false notion that Nephi wanted to keep them in subjection merely because he found himself always having to remind and exhort them into a remembrance of Gods hand and miracles in their lives because they were always forgetting and wanting to return to their former ways. Gods will was the whole cause of their leaving Jerusalem, traveling in the wilderness, sailing across the sea and arriving in the promised land in the America's. Anyway, that's what I read and goes with your mention of obedience to God. Some people think that God should just do all this for us and save us in heaven. But what he wants is our participation, our work, sacrifice, our enlargement and fitness upon arrival, which requires keeping him in remembrance. Sorry if this sounds preachy. I'm just kind of excited about my newfound precepts from reading the BoM.
     
  20. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I could draw on the walls of my home with a crayon like a toddler, but that's beneath me.
    I could hire the services of a prostitute where it's legal, but that's beneath me.
    I could engage in hours of back and forth with a Twitter troll on the Internet, but that's beneath me.

    And I could enter a building and sit shoulder to shoulder with homophobes an be lied to by a man behind a lectern, but that's beneath me.

    If these things are beneath the insignificant life form that is me, an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity is surely above making demands of His creations to sooth His ego. Otherwise I am above God! Making these absurd gestures to appease God diminishes God's power not elevate it!

    A jealous God you say. Jealousy points to insecurity and insecurity points to weakness. Such a God is not worthy of my worship.

    So what God is worthy of my (indirect) worship? The one that can give everybody what they desire the most if they are honest with themselves: peace of mind. There is that saying that goes something along the lines of "All of man's problems stem from his inability to sit quietly in a room by himself" If you but still your mind in meditation, you merge with the one will and then you can manifest the life you desire by accomplishing just about anything you set your mind to because your will is merged with the will of God.

    If performing a song and dance to a deity you worship gives you happiness, then I'm happy for you. Just don't assume that's the prescription for every human being on this planet to be happy. My prescription for happiness only works on people who ask first. Organized religion prescribe their methods of finding happiness to people who did not ask for it (child indoctrination and door to door evangelism).

    And before you invoke the Bible and Jesus, I remind you that I don't believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and that I'm NOT a follower of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  21. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how people get hurt feelings so easily and forget God, blame God and the Church as well. It goes back to what "faith" is. And, how our Testimonies have to be the binding glue to keep moving forwards in the Gospel of Jesus Christ even if we get our feelings hurt. Father banished Satan (Lucifer) from Heaven to never be able to progress to Eternal Life. So, Satan enjoys it when he can separate us from Father in Heaven. In my Elder's Quorum meeting Sunday, it was brought up how there is much division in all things. And, members will have their own opinions on these divisions. But, it's vital that we remember that in Christ's true Church we are united in the Gospel and purpose to assist in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. Which is the Plan of our Father in Heaven. I remember in the late 70's when I joined the Church, a member said he was for the ERA amendment that the Prophet came out against it. I listened to him and he said he was for it so that women would earn the same as a man. I said to him the Prophet of God will not lead us astray and there is a reason above his reason. Today, we are seeing what would have happened much sooner had the ERA amendment passed. The WOK confusion would have destroyed the world faster. The ERA amendment was never about equal pay. It was about destroying religion specifically The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
     
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  22. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    The good news for you is that there is a god just for you that wants those same things he wants. His name is Satan. Good luck.
    Interesting that you use your own definition and context for a definition of "jealousy." Because, in context, it points to strength. Let's say you have a son/daughter who goes against your rules at your house (assuming you have rules and don't let your children run amuck. Not sure about this though). It's not so much that they broke your law and you ground her/him. It's that you are jealous and want them to be successful in life and your rules will help them. The question is, do you give them the right to choose to live by your rules or not? If not, I would say you would be the one who is insecure and weak. Father in Heaven has given us His rules to live by and continues to do so when needed through Prophets of God. But, he is secure enough to allow us to choose good or evil with each rule. He wants all of us to return and be successful by being blessed with Eternal Celestial Life and continue to progress in joy and happiness. But, he knows not all of us will and while he is sadden to lose any of His children, he's strong in his commitment to allow for this free moral agency to choose for ourselves. While, you most likely are not. May God teach us all patience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021 at 5:11 PM
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  23. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Baptism and the sacrament aren't for God. They are for us, to symbolize and covenant the washing away of sin following repentance. The sacrament is to keep us in remembrance of his divine sacrifice for us. How do you honor God by mocking those who do?
     
  24. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    This should be an interesting response...
     
  25. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Satan wants me to find happiness and peace of mind? Interesting...

    Unlike in religion and politics, I don't make my children perform physical gestures as a demonstration of loyalty or as an initiation into the family. (politics: taking a vow with an arm raised, saluting a flag, standing for an anthem, pledging allegiance with your hand over your heart etc. religion: dipping your head in water and partaking of ceremonial bread and wine). Household chores are for utilitarian purposes NOT demonstrations of loyalty to Mum and Dad. A demonstration of loyalty would be if I demanded my wife kiss my feet or if I told my children to perform a song and dance on pain of being denied access to electronics.

    To the text in bold: there's that concept of God's elect aka God picking favorites. Not a God worthy of worship.

    I don't go out of my way to mock people at the doorstep of a church building. I mock people who preach in public places or on my doorstep or in my workplace. You can keep your magazines and tracts. I mock people who tell me to take the Bible more seriously than any other book I've ever read.
     

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